Just like all the other shutdowns, it will not last.  We will see if Trump is ready to really do this battle because no matter how you look at it, in the long run it will not help him.  The longer a shutdown goes on, Trump and the Republican party will be the ones who will take the brunt of the damage and with midterms around the corner, I am not sure if Trump really want the Dems to gain control of either parts of Congress.

It’s not supposed to last though.That seems to be the conventional wisdom, “shutdown hurts Republicans” I can agree with that. Democrats have mastered the art of the blame until Trump. Shutting down the government is the only negotiations the president has. To keep vetoing bills until he gets what he wants and let the time run out for shutdown or congress overrides the veto. The immigration issue is the #1 priority of the American people though, if that’s the reason for the shutdown it won’t hurt Trump. If McConnell overrides his veto then the Republican Party will be hurt sure. For being spineless hacks. He already said absolutely no shutdown. I keep hearing about how great this goober is but he is weak in my view, a total joke. 

All the parties have mastered the art of blame, stop trying to put this as only one party that does it.  They all do the exact same thing when they have the advantage.  The only difference with Trump is that his actions are so transparent that it border on stupidity most of the time.  As is the case now, he has blamed Obama and Hillary so much that no one even takes those comment seriously any more at least from the friends I know that voted for him and still support Trump.

Shutting down  the government is not the only negotiations the president has, its the only one that Trump cares to use.  He does not want to take the time to build the relationships needed to swing votes in Congress.  When he first became president, all he did was blame the Dems for everything he could even when it was his own party that was holding up things.  This is where you have to understand when to just shut up.  The same people who you think you will not need become the same people who get in the way when you really need something.  You would believe he would have figured this out after the incident with McCain.  Trump does not want to take the time to get with the leaders of both parties and hammer out conditions to get the things he want.  Instead, he believes of the quick fix.  "Shut the government down, make a demand and veto everything that comes to my desk."  If it was so easy to go this route you can believe other presidents would have done it more often as well.  Only thing this will do is piss off both parties and as you claim they will reach Majority on a bipartisan to overrule his veto and leave him out.

Here is the thing with immigration being number one issue for Americans right now.  Just that alone does not tell you exactly what part of immigration makes it number one.  Without understanding which side of the coin people sit on this issue, just believing that it's important for the wrong reasons would be a bad miscalculation.

That is why I always find people who argue its a waste of money as idiots.

Even if we ignore the simple fact that a wall should cut down on costs yearly we spend on fighting illegal immigration, the very fact is that we have probably spent more on fighting against the wall than the wall would cost. So no one should ever use the argument that the wall costs too much.

Be like someone telling you to do something that would take five minutes and then you arguing for ten minutes on how you don't have time to do it. That is what I see when I see people arguing about the cost of the wall. People can argue about other reasons for not having the wall, but cost is not an argument.

edit: Not sure what wall is supposed to cost. This study is using $15 million as figure. https://cis.org/Report/Cost-Border-Wall-vs-Cost-Illegal-Immigration But point is that this study states that if the wall stops only 10% of illegal immigrants per year, it would pay for itself in 10 years. Who knows what it would stop, but I think we can all agree that it would stop some. Whether it is 1% 10% or 50%, the point is, that sooner or later the savings would equal it paying for itself, whether that is in a few years or 50 years.

Both parties are not the master of blaming the other side for government shutdowns. Obama shit down the government and the republicans still got blamed. Republicans have mastered the art of the cave, that’s why you have McOnnell and Ryan promising no shutdown. They are scared to death of being blamed. A shutdown isn’t a bad thing, the country isn’t going to collapse with a shutdown. The dems have mastered making it seem that way though. It’s easy to blame Obama  because he was terrible. I’m not surprised people don’t take Obama criticism seriously, he’s the American infallible pope. 8 years no scandals lmao!

its the only way to combat a worthless congress, that’s a fact. Build relationships with who? If the majority leaders won’t bring up the vote then it doesn’t matter how many people you convince. He should reach across the aisle to the people that want to abolish ICE? They can veto his actions and it will hurt the Republican Party. Who cares if he pisses off congress? Good, piss of congress. As long as the people are on his side it doesn’t matter. Trying to get the border funded will not hurt him in the slightest. 

He won didnt he? Both sides of the coin don’t matter. He was put in there because of immigration first and foremost. The vast majority support his actions. What miscalculation? The democratic socialists of America will hate him if he funds the border? That’s not a revolutionary statement. 

I was just quoting you where you said a 16 day shutdown would cost us $25 billion. If the wall costs $25 billion, what would you rather we do?

Build a wall, or be shutdown for 16 days? What is a better use of money to you?

And I'm going to argue who's study is factual more correct or not. I've seen plenty of partisanship shit on factcheck since President Trump has been in office. The one you linked sounds like its trying way to hard to PROVE Trump wrong to sound impartial. One needs to read articles and make ones own conclusions. But I did read the article you linked and the study's main point of contention is that the one I linked brings all the costs up front when it would be spread out over an immigrants life. That doesn't change that fact that a wall would prevent immigrants from coming into America and feeding off our system somehow, thus saving us some money. Whether that is 100 million a year or 1 billion a year, the point remains that sooner or later the wall would pay for itself.

Lets just take the fact that the U.S. spend 134 billion dollars on illegal immigration last year and make our own prediction:

How much do you think we would save if we had a wall up?What would it cost to run the wall? Man the wall? Would this cost less than what it costs to man the open fields right now? Would we need less or more manpower to watch border crossings now? What is maintenance/repair costs for the wall? How many less people would get across the border? Would it help stop drug trade even a little bit? Ect. Just think of all those questions and more and tell me that if we ignored inflation, what would the cost of immigration cost the U.S. next year if we had a wall up today? Would it raise to 139 billion? Stay the same? Lower to 130 billion?

I feel even on a conservative side of thinking, that the savings would be at minimum 500 million to 1 billion per year. So within 25-50 years we would pay for the wall.

Why would it cost money to shut the government down? How does that make any sense?

Well we can agree to disagree who is the king of blame, as for government shutdowns yes right now since the Republican party has majority in the House and Senate, they will get the brunt of blame. Why would they not be scared especially coming up to the midterms and a potential to lose both house and senate majority.  A shutdown is a bad thing for DC and it looks unfavorable to the controlling party.  This is why Trump threatening to shutdown the government if the Dems agree to his wall is right up there with his other stupid tweets.  Why this would make the Dems vote for his wall is the dumbest ideal he had in the last day or two.  Its like he totally doesn't understand how congress work.  So basically you just prove my point how dumb him even suggesting this as some type of leverage is going to fall very flat.

You forget that this worthless congress is still the one that auto signs anything Trump wants as long as he auto signs what they want.  Do you actually believe things get better if the Dems take over.  If you want to see obstruction, just let the Dems get any kind of leverage and we will have the same results we saw under Obama when the Republicans pretty much auto rejected anything Obama tried to pass.  You keep talking about the people behind Trump but Trump did not win majority of the voters.  If anything you can say half of America doesn't like what he is doing and who knows if that number is plus or negative.  What you will see if there are more turn out in the midterms and Republicans lose a lot of seats that Trump pull is not there and it will be an indication that he doesn't have that support you believe he has.

You must be on the same mindset as Trump.  You believe he can do whatever he wants but we already see, he cannot get any votes from the Dems the way he goes about his job.  So yes, he better start trying to form relationship within the Dems because if they gain any more seats he will have no choice.

I have to say you are reaching on your last paragraph.  Just because Trump won doesn't mean he won because of Immigration.  Who is this vast majority that support his immigration action, do you have the stats for this and please not from some conservative mag can it be bipartisan.  How exactly did the Dems hate Obama when he funded the border or I guess since he didn't ask for a wall he wasn't strong enough.  

No republicans always get blamed for shutdowns. Obama did the same thing trump said he would do and it was the republicans fault. Now it’s trumps fault. My point is that it’s nobodys fault. When the branches are at odds it shuts down, that’s the American system. It’s not dumb. McConnell like the spineless hack he is, is waiting until after the midterms to hold the vote. He is scared, he’s a typical RINO pushover. Say good things during the election and then reverse rule in DC. Trump is trying call out these people before the midterms, he said let’s have the vote now and let the people know which pussy republicans we need to replace. I think that’s great, he’s not as dumb as you think he is. The Republican Party needs a kick in its ass and a steel beam to support their jelly backs.

He won the states. If all of the illegal aliens were contained in NY and California then your popular vote point would be relevant. He does have the support. I think it’s fairly obvious with his approval numbers. Since when did the losing half of the country get consessions? Half of the country and not a single republican voted for Obamacare yet here we are. How is that any different?

He isn’t not going to get any votes from democrats regardless. They haven’t won yet, he doesn’t have to do anything. He needs to be more worried about the do-nothing republicans.

Im not reaching, it’s obvious. 26 states sued Obama because he was bussing in immigrants to there states and dumping them there. Did you just ignore the border crisis that happened? Did you ignore all of the obnoxious shit Trump was saying during the primary? How he mopped the floor with pro amnesty people like Jen bush? He ran on borders and he won because he was the only one addressing the border. Immigration, economy and SCOTUS picks are why he won the presidency. There aren’t enough “trump can do no wrong” fanatics to get him elected. I don’t have any stats other than polls but I think it’s  fairly obvious what people mean about immigration. You have a border or you don’t, you protect the border or you don’t. Trump won with divisive rhetoric, it’s not reaching. Obama didn’t protect the border ops of course they loved him.

Like what can you give an example? That sounds like some bullshit. What costs are involved in shutting down and reopening the government? I know about the retroactive pay which is some bullshit honestly. Only in the public sector would that happen. Still though, it doesn’t cost money to retroactively pay someone. They were going to get paid that anyway. Losing revenue on the parks is not a cost and I doubt it’s significant.

It does sound odd, I don’t believe it. If it is indeed true then it shows how bloated and worthless the federal government is. It is a tool, that’s what happens when you independent equal branches. It’s one of the few beauties left in our system.