Kyros said: "They do that because their console propose nothing new except graphics." Yeah nothing. Besides great online capabilities that outclass the Wii (friend codes lol), media capabilities( like BluRay playback for the PS3, media streaming from your PC etc. pp. HD movie download for the 360), more power for gameplay aspects like better physics for example in Star Wars force unleashed, a Hard-disc for game demo downloads (of gigabyte size) etc. pp. This is the most astonishing thing about Nintendo fanboys to me they seem to have a warped view of reality. I can concede that the Wii has revolutionized user input and that Nintendo is doing great things in bringing casual gamers to its console. But some/many Nintendo fanboys really seem to think that the only advantage of PS3/360 is graphics? Perhaps you should use one of them.

Now you're bordering on stupidity. Read again what I wrote : "nothing NEW". I shouldn't have added "except graphics" because it's not even true and misleading, they are not new either. But I did that because typical SD displays (interlaced and analog signal) are very different from typical HD displays (progressive and digital signal).

Can you make a difference between the words "new" and "improved", or do I have a problem understanding them?

There is nothing new in anything you cited: online capabilities are not new to this generation, they're only  improved. Media capabilities (movies, network, ...) are not new, only improved, more power is not new, hard-disc is not new, ...

This is the most astonishing thing about HD fanboys to me, they seem to have a warped view of reality. I can concede that the PS3/XB360 can deliver HD and that their respective companies are doing great things in bringing graphics whores to their console. But some/many HD fanboys really seem to think that the only advantage of the Wii is the wiimote? Perhaps you should use one of them.

Kyros said: "Do you think the 1st party games like mario, zelda and smash graphics are last gen or would you agree that they are good enough?" With the exception of Zelda they definitely look better than most if not all last-gen games. Zelda looks nice but its a Gamecube game and therefore it is "last-gen". The problem is if you want to compare graphics last-gen and better are rather subjective adjectives.

This is how I detect true graphics whores.

I need only one answer now: is the remake of SF II for XB360/PS3 a last last last last gen title or is it next gen?

The Zelda example is very telling.

The same game from a previous gen, even if it had the best graphics, is still last gen despite the dev applying next gen gameplay to it. So to you, Zelda TP is last gen, even on the Wii, and the same goes true for RE4 in your mind. So you surely think the million of people that bought RE4 again are morons.

But the same game as last gen (or even further) is next gen to you, as soon as it's added HD graphics, amirite? 

@BengaBenga,

150k it`s a minimum. Atleast 300-400k will be a boost.
And that just a one game.

http://vgchartz.com/japtotals.php?name=dynast&console=&maker=&disp=American+Name&boxartz=1
As you can see, first games are NOT so big.
Same goes for http://vgchartz.com/japtotals.php?name=winning&console=&maker=&disp=American+Name&boxartz=1
These game buy mostly fans, that`s why they are NOT a BIG system sellers.

Yakuza did ok, already sold 300k or 40-45% of LTD sales from previous titles. But this game is also oriented mostly on Jakuza fans. =)

MH3 on Wii, might sell better then ps2, BUT that is not enough, it has little chance to be a million seller in Japan, just like Wii kart.

And you Forget, That PS3 still has higher price, while Wii price is not so high for a consumer. You Forget, that Sony easy can release PS3 slim.

What Wii games? There are just several titles announced, which are above then average games. It`s nowhere close to DS releases.
In terms of games, Wii future games is nowhere close to PS3 tittles, which will come in next 12 month.

"Now you're bordering on stupidity. Read again what I wrote : "nothing NEW"."

LOL, apart from the fact that many of these things are NEW.(BluRay, many Online features (PC had them, for the consoles only the XBOX came close), power for realistic physics in Force Unleashed) etc. pp. What exactly is so NEW about the Wii? Motion controls have been tried dozens of times, minigames and lightgun games are not exactly revolutionary. The answer is the Wii simply executes motion control much better than ever before.
Being rude and insulting doesn't make your arguments much better.

"So to you, Zelda TP is last gen, even on the Wii"

It has last-gen graphics you cretin. It was a Gamecube game that got motion controls on the Wii but you can play the same game on the Gamecube for christ's sake. I didn't say the graphics are bad. But if last-gen is defined by having graphics that can be done on the last generation of consoles then Zelda is last-gen. Read then write. I also said that last-gen is a stupid adjective because IMO God-of-War2 looks better than for example Genji (way better art direction).

@CrazzyMan

The price difference between PS3 and Wii in Japan is about the same as between PS2 and Gamecube at the moment. It didn't exactly stop PS2 from beating the Gamecube.

I understand that Yakuza and the other games sold to the hardcore fans only, otherwise they would have sold a lot more. But if these games won't sell, how will games with less sales on PS2 do?

Monster Hunter 3 will, just as Mario Kart, become a million seller in Japan. You're statement that MK won't be a million seller is close to stupid after today's announcement of 300.000 first day sales.

May I remind you that a spin-off which of Dragon Quest (well it's more like a spin-off of a spin-off, so different is that game) sold more than ANY PS3 game in Japan. Makes me wonder what FF:CC Crystal Bearers will do, since that will be a real RPG and it will be the first FF to arrive this gen.

You say MGS will sell 500.000 k first week, yet you expect a console boost of 300.000 - 400.000???? That's insane and I hope you don't believe it yourself.

Kyros said: "Now you're bordering on stupidity. Read again what I wrote : "nothing NEW"." LOL, apart from the fact that many of these things are NEW.(BluRay, many Online features (PC had them, for the consoles only the XBOX came close), power for realistic physics in Force Unleashed) etc. pp. What exactly is so NEW about the Wii? Motion controls have been tried dozens of times, minigames and lightgun games are not exactly revolutionary. The answer is the Wii simply executes motion control much better than ever before. Being rude and insulting doesn't make your arguments much better. "So to you, Zelda TP is last gen, even on the Wii" It has last-gen graphics you cretin. It was a Gamecube game that got motion controls on the Wii but you can play the same game on the Gamecube for christ's sake. I didn't say the graphics are bad. But if last-gen is defined by having graphics that can be done on the last generation of consoles then Zelda is last-gen. Read then write. I also said that last-gen is a stupid adjective because IMO God-of-War2 looks better than for example Genji (way better art direction).

 

What? You're denying that these features are just improvements compared to last gen?

Yes BluRay is a new format, but for games or movies, it's nothing new, it's just improved compared to DVD: improved storage space, improved resolution for the codecs, improved interactivity, ... These are just improvements, nothing is new at all.

As for online features, excuse-me but you can't be more wrong. Even not counting Nintendo SNES attempts, PS2 had online capabilities, Dreamcast had them too. Now they're improved, that's all, but that's nothing new.

Now you tell me motion controls are not new? On consoles? Now I'm sure you're insane.

And no, last gen is not defined by having graphics that can be done on the last generation of consoles. You didn't even realize that you made a recursive definition, which thus can't ever be explained qith what you said. "last gen is defined by having graphics ... on the last gen... of consoles" is not a definition, as it loops upon itself.

Generations as commonly used are defined by a time frame when consoles are launched, it's purely defined by time, nothing more.

But it seems lots of people have problem coping with that simple fact.

I have the feeling it's true mainly for very insecure people or corporations, that want to be related to more power absolutely, or else they feel like they are failures. 

And you are denying that the Wii motion control is just an improvement compared to other available motion controllers for consoles/PC etc.? If you define "improvement" wide enough EVERYTHING is just an improvement. We can have this useless discussion until eternity if you want to. This is even more ironic since the good games for the Wii are all pretty classic games (read rather similar to the predecessor) And Smash, Galaxy and Zelda would have been (or are) just as good without any motion controls. Only Metroid has substantial game changing benefits through them.

"for very insecure people or corporations, that want to be related to more power absolutely, or else they feel like they are failures. "

What I find really interesting is the almost propaganda like approach Nintento fanboys take to protect their Wii. I remember the time before the Wii launch when many were saying that Nintendo had hidden the true specifications of the Wii and its graphics would be as good as 360. And after the launch suddenly people who like games with good graphics are graphic whores, insecure, failures, bloodthirsty hardcore gamers, have no friends or girlfriends (while all Wii owners can choose between three top models lol) etc. pp. If you cannot argue on facts try to discredit the people that do not have your opinion. Nice approach.

Ookaze and Kyros, you might want to agree to disagree, because this can really go either way. I agree with both of you. Better graphics is nothing new, since it's been done forever (as a way to improve a console over previous generations), but HD compared to SD is more of a jump than just a regular improvement. Also, physics and such are far more realistic on current gen consoles (more so for the 360/PS3, but the Wii has some decent physic engines), this could be considered "new" easily enough. Online is the same idea, it's been used before, but the new features (especially voice chat), rankings, and such are more than just small improvement.

Motion controls have never really been implemented properly, and no motion controller has been as widely accepted as the Wii + wiimote has been. Look at the powerglove. Utter failure. Sometimes being "new" doesn't mean "first time being implemented." More often than not (since many new technologies fail at first) being "new" means implementing it in a way that works well and becomes widely popular. In this case, online is "new" because Microsoft has really pushed it's online service to where many 360's are online. Sony has pushed blu-ray to become the new movie disc standard, and as such is "new." Nintendo has found a way to make motion controls work, and make it accessible to anyone. That's "new."

So in a way you are both right. Agree to disagree?

The controller is not so much new as accessible. You can give the Wiimote to anyone and it is intuitive enough that most people will be comfortable. That is not the case with the power glove and other such devices.

The typical joypad is not terribly intuitive. Give it to someone who has never used one before and chances are they will not feel comfortable.

It's like the iPod. All the technology that went into the iPod existed before Apple created it. But Apple made it accessible enough for everyone to use it. And people certainly didn't choose the iPod because of price or features, because the Ipod was more expensive and had fewer features than most mp3 players.

Apple created a device that everyone could use that was intuitive. The same way the Nintendo has created devices that are intuitive. Features and price were only secondary to accessibility.

The wii mote is not as easy to use as people think especially for things that require a flick of the wrist.  I find controlers xbox or ps style way easier to use.