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Forums - Nintendo - Nintendo should teach their 3rd party supporters their file compression secrets.

AngryLittleAlchemist on 02 November 2017
Zekkyou said:

Tropical Freeze is almost twice the size of SMO. Did Nintendo forget to tell Nintendo how to compress? Was everyone off sick and the janitor forced to do it? Or is this discussion perhaps more complex than the "Nintendo good, all others bad" narrative you've attempted to cocoon yourself in?

 

WOOOAH! Why is that? More content? More level assets and music? 



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Alkibiádēs on 02 November 2017
Zekkyou said:
Alkibiádēs said:

So what's so complex about Crash Bandicoot's graphics then? Extremely linear level design, fixed camera and 30 fps. Not a lot of voice acting either, yet its size is humongous compared to Nintendo's HD platformers. 

A Hat in Time takes up 5 GB yet Wind Waker HD only takes up half that space (a very similar looking game I might add). 

Sonic & Sega All Stars Racing Transformed takes up around the same amount of space as Mario Kart 8 Deluxe yet it only has 20 tracks compared to the latter's 48 tracks.

In general? Not much, its tech is quite tame for a retail PS4 title (R&C is far more impressive). Relative to the average Nintendo title and in the context of a storage discussion? Its textures are significantly more detailed, its environments are more geometrically complex, and it spends 15 hours rapidly discarding those environments and their assets.

Tropical Freeze is almost twice the size of SMO. Did Nintendo forget to tell Nintendo how to compress? Was everyone off sick and the janitor forced to do it? Or is this discussion perhaps more complex than the "Nintendo good, all others bad" narrative you've attempted to cocoon yourself in?

It should also be noted that saying stuff like "ABC has much better [x asset] than the average Nintendo title" isn't a criticism again said Nintendo title. The PS4 is literally several times stronger than even a docked Switch, and for fairly obvious reasons. Even a shitty developer can quite easily match the average asset quality of a Nintendo title on the PS4, because they have far more wiggle room. Said texture will, however, look worse because that's Nintendo's strength: They make lesser assets look better than most others can. Making something look nicer than it normally should doesn't make the asset file larger though.

When talking about Nintendo we're obviously talking about Nintendo EPD (the cream of the crop). Jeez. They're the compression wizards. Nintendo isn't a singular entity. 

As for Tropical Freeze, that was Retro's first HD game, cut them some slack will ya. 

Ps: Crash Bandicoot isn't geometrically complex in the slightest.



"The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must" - Thoukydides

d21lewis on 02 November 2017

This conversation has taken a heck of a turn but maybe, if we're doing comparisons, stick to the same gen and maybe there same console?

*Instantly contradicts self*
And why is Arkham Knight almost twice as big on PS4 as it is on Xbox One?



Normchacho on 02 November 2017
Alkibiádēs said:
Zekkyou said:

In general? Not much, its tech is quite tame for a retail PS4 title (R&C is far more impressive). Relative to the average Nintendo title and in the context of a storage discussion? Its textures are significantly more detailed, its environments are more geometrically complex, and it spends 15 hours rapidly discarding those environments and their assets.

Tropical Freeze is almost twice the size of SMO. Did Nintendo forget to tell Nintendo how to compress? Was everyone off sick and the janitor forced to do it? Or is this discussion perhaps more complex than the "Nintendo good, all others bad" narrative you've attempted to cocoon yourself in?

It should also be noted that saying stuff like "ABC has much better [x asset] than the average Nintendo title" isn't a criticism again said Nintendo title. The PS4 is literally several times stronger than even a docked Switch, and for fairly obvious reasons. Even a shitty developer can quite easily match the average asset quality of a Nintendo title on the PS4, because they have far more wiggle room. Said texture will, however, look worse because that's Nintendo's strength: They make lesser assets look better than most others can. Making something look nicer than it normally should doesn't make the asset file larger though.

When talking about Nintendo we're obviously talking about Nintendo EPD (the cream of the crop). Jeez.

As for Tropical Freeze, that was Retro's first HD game, cut them some slack will ya. 

Ps: Crash Bandicoot isn't geometrically complex in the slightest.

 

Compared to most major PS4 games? No, it's not. Compared to Nintendo games? It'll be at least a generation before Nintendo is putting out games like it.



Bet with Adamblaziken:

I bet that on launch the Nintendo Switch will have no built in in-game voice chat. He bets that it will. The winner gets six months of avatar control over the other user.

Alkibiádēs on 02 November 2017
Normchacho said:
Alkibiádēs said:

When talking about Nintendo we're obviously talking about Nintendo EPD (the cream of the crop). Jeez.

As for Tropical Freeze, that was Retro's first HD game, cut them some slack will ya. 

Ps: Crash Bandicoot isn't geometrically complex in the slightest.

 

Compared to most major PS4 games? No, it's not. Compared to Nintendo games? It'll be at least a generation before Nintendo is putting out games like it.

Not sure if we're looking at the same game here.

I still don't understand how that game is not 60 fps. 



"The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must" - Thoukydides

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AngryLittleAlchemist on 02 November 2017
Alkibiádēs said:
Normchacho said:

 

Compared to most major PS4 games? No, it's not. Compared to Nintendo games? It'll be at least a generation before Nintendo is putting out games like it.

Not sure if we're looking at the same game here.

I still don't understand how that game is not 60 fps. 

Why do you keep bringing up FPS in a discussion about file size? 



DonFerrari on 02 November 2017
Wright said:
DonFerrari said:

On PS3 it was said to be a fault of the single or 2x speed of the BD drive.

Perhaps after seeing most gamers are ok with install times and that they would save money on games being on the HDD instead of putting better drives (which also increase the life of the console) coupled with the patch hungry state of games Sony and MS didn't bothered anymore for this gen and gone further making all games full installs.

If I had to take a wild guess, better drives would make both consoles' price go up dramatically, which is simply unviable.

Seems the most logical conclusion we can make. Once we accepted as normal to instal they never looked back. But I don't think a 16x speed BD drive cost that much over a 1 or 2x speed BD drive at this time and age, but if you can save some usd on it without no one really complaining why not right?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Alkibiádēs on 02 November 2017
AngryLittleAlchemist said:
Alkibiádēs said:

Not sure if we're looking at the same game here.

I still don't understand how that game is not 60 fps. 

Why do you keep bringing up FPS in a discussion about file size? 

To hammer in the point that the game's visuals aren't good enough for it to not run at 60 fps. 



"The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must" - Thoukydides

Normchacho on 02 November 2017
Alkibiádēs said:
Normchacho said:

 

Compared to most major PS4 games? No, it's not. Compared to Nintendo games? It'll be at least a generation before Nintendo is putting out games like it.

Not sure if we're looking at the same game here.

I still don't understand how that game is not 60 fps. 

Then you're being willfully ignorant. You've had several people try and take you through the differences and what they mean step by step like a child. If you aren't seeing it it's because you don't want to.



Bet with Adamblaziken:

I bet that on launch the Nintendo Switch will have no built in in-game voice chat. He bets that it will. The winner gets six months of avatar control over the other user.

Zekkyou on 02 November 2017
Alkibiádēs said:
Zekkyou said:

In general? Not much, its tech is quite tame for a retail PS4 title (R&C is far more impressive). Relative to the average Nintendo title and in the context of a storage discussion? Its textures are significantly more detailed, its environments are more geometrically complex, and it spends 15 hours rapidly discarding those environments and their assets.

Tropical Freeze is almost twice the size of SMO. Did Nintendo forget to tell Nintendo how to compress? Was everyone off sick and the janitor forced to do it? Or is this discussion perhaps more complex than the "Nintendo good, all others bad" narrative you've attempted to cocoon yourself in?

It should also be noted that saying stuff like "ABC has much better [x asset] than the average Nintendo title" isn't a criticism again said Nintendo title. The PS4 is literally several times stronger than even a docked Switch, and for fairly obvious reasons. Even a shitty developer can quite easily match the average asset quality of a Nintendo title on the PS4, because they have far more wiggle room. Said texture will, however, look worse because that's Nintendo's strength: They make lesser assets look better than most others can. Making something look nicer than it normally should doesn't make the asset file larger though.

When talking about Nintendo we're obviously talking about Nintendo EPD (the cream of the crop). Jeez. They're the compression wizards. Nintendo isn't a singular entity. 

As for Tropical Freeze, that was Retro's first HD game, cut them some slack will ya. 

Ps: Crash Bandicoot isn't geometrically complex in the slightest.

You didn't have a problem bringing up Metroid, but now Retro are a problem? That's certainly quite a convenient shift in the discussion. Awfully unkind of Nintendo to fail to share their mysterious compression powers with Retro after 15 years.

And no, not in general. But far compared to SMO? Absolutely. Just look at the screens you sent. The rock in-front of Coco is more complex than the entire platform Mario is standing on lol. I'm glad we've gotten past textures though, that's some progress.

AngryLittleAlchemist said:

WOOOAH! Why is that? More content? More level assets and music? 

Assets mostly. TF takes advantages of its design to push some textures and geometry that's pretty complex for the WiiU. It also, like Crash, is constantly cycling out content in a fashion which gives less opportunity for re-use.