Farsala said:
Hiku said:
How is that particular comparison using skewed statistics then? It's easy to just say things without backing them up. I'm sure there may be some factors worth taking into consideration. But none that would conceivably make up for the fact that USA's population isn't 7000 times bigger than Norways. Not even close.
And I'm not just looking at police. That was just one of many examples.
Another example isn't comparing itself to any other nation. It just shows the difference gun control can make in a particular country.
In Australia, before the Port Arthur massacre in 1996 they had 10 massacres in the 10 years prior to that. Basically 1 massacre per year for 10 years.
But in 1996 they "banned" guns. And in the 20 years that followed, they had 0 massacres.
You don't have to compare to another country to see that it made a noticable difference.
Not saying USA's situation is identical to Australia by any means. But developed nations where guns are essentially banned seem to have significantly fewer instances of gun violence, and even homocides per capita. In every country I've looked into so far that appears to be the case. And that includes nations that previously allowed guns.
That said I'm not implying that USA all of a sudden banning guns would be a good idea. If they ever wanted to get to that point I imagine they'd have to take a much longer road than some other countries because of the number of guns they already have in circulation, their situation with organised crime, etc.
I don't mind if you support guns or not as long as you explain you explain your reasoning.
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I don't really support the guns, but just because something worked for Australia or other widely different countries, doesn't mean it would work for USA.
USA is after all unlike any other country with not only tons of guns, but a high population and that makes for some decent amount of gun violence, especially in poverty places.
Then take my Iowa example from earlier and you got a bunch of people with tons of guns and very little gun violence.
While Australia is not a lot of people without a lot of guns and violence.
palou said:
"Looks like more guns don't always equal more violence"
How in the world did you get that conclusion from that data? I mean, you can find other examples, but the ones you took clearly shows a correlation between gun ownership and murder. Guns per murder would only matter if you were trying to show a direct linear correlation, which no has ever said to be the case.
Lack of density also seems like a bad argument (I don't actually see how that should contribute significantly to violence - in Canada, as in everywhere else, almost everyone lives in urban areas - around Toronto, Montreal, and the West Coast. Who cares how much empty space is between these urban areas.)
Notice also that the average European country has a popultion density higher than the US. Germany, with a murder rate of about 0.8, has a density of 226/km2, which would put it between the 5th and 6th densesest US states. Also, 0.8 is bellow the murder rate of all US states, according to the most recent data:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_homicide_rate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
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The correlation isn't clear though. Iowans have 3 times as much guns as Canada but only 1.86 more gun violence. So on average more guns does not equal more gun violence as everyone seems to argue against. In other words, getting rid of the guns does not neccesarily mean less gun violence.
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Where did anyone ever claim that there was a direct linear function to describe gun violence over guns? Positive correlation simply means that we can give an approximation of one by the other by applying a funtion with strictly positive derivative over its entire domaine.
Generally, we try to describe things with a linear function. However, it's 100% unnecessary to try to apply a direct linear function - It's perfectly fine to use ax + b for a non-zero b, in which case, ratios bewteen x and y become quite meaningless to describe correlation.
As a whole, ratios between x and y just isn'tsomething you do in statistics to describe a correlation.
You can of course find some counter examples, but the set you gave mst definitely isn't one.
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