I heard something like that too Luinil, the Christians thing :P

Yeah I heard about this some days ago... Kinda awkward. Why didn't they just get the actual wife pregnant? :s

 If you're going to quote at least try to make it clear that you're doing it so I don't try to figure out wth you saying to me only to realize that you quoted someone else. Thanks =)

also,

It's only going to get worse from here!  You may continue your debate.  

So many posts to reply to!

"You post garbage like this and have the nerve to call me an idiot??? You are the biggest fool I've ever known for believing this putrid diaherra that spews from you mouth.

In essence you are saying that there is no morallity. If a person thinks this is right for him, then in spite of any moral sense, it must be right. By this same logic I could in theory rape your mother, and then murder your father, and that would all be o.k. because I was born with these desires and they have been with me since I was like say 4. So it is only fair for me to be able to excercise who I am. Sorry about your mom and dad BTW. Oh, and I don't think I should have to go to jail or even a psych ward. Afterall, I'm just being me and that is my business.

The fact of the matter is homosexuallity and other sexual perversions are not normal. Get over it Rath.

They are not normal on a Christian level; they are sin.

They are not even normal on an evolutionary basis; as survival of the fittest certainly can't survive if the guys can't figure out what to do with their equipment."

However somebody having a sex change or two homosexuals having consensual sex cause no harm to anybody else. If somebody killed my father of course I would be severely pissed as that causes harm to me personally however if somebody gets their penis turned into a vagina, wheres the harm to me or anybody else?
There is a clear and massive difference and the only way you can miss it is on purpose.

Also do you have any proof of the fact that homosexuality is not normal? It seems to occur naturally in many different species of animals, and if you are going to claim that its not normal because most people aren't gay then I can argue that white people aren't normal either, as the majority of the world is not white.

Also in terms of evolution it doesn't really make sense for people to be gay or transgender, but it also doesn't make sense for us to allow the mentally or physically retarded to live. Humans don't live by survival of the fittest these days.

"My god ... and you call others an idiot . Clearly you have no idea of how deep an ancient reliogion can be , and all you know is that religious people tend to think that homosexuality is bad , just because a pope or God told them ... thats just so wrong . I had the chance to learn dogmathics for 2 years , and actually , afther those 300+ classes that Ive had attended their explanation of why homosexuality is bad is much better than waht you have copy/pasted here from wikipedia or who knows what site and actually realies entirely on scientific studies . If you have no clue what religion is , than dont mock others just because they bealive in something , even if your parents where irresponsible enough to try and give you at least some religious education .



Could I write it down to you , the answer , why religious people think that homosexuality is bad ? No , not even If I would continue my studies for 5 more years . But in the same time Im not the best example for a religious person .... Still I used to laugh at their arguments back then , but yours seems so childish compared to those"

You say that they are entirely based on scientific studies? Care to show me some?

The thing with scientific studies sponsored by a church is that they are often not very scientific, they generally have a result in mind when they start the study, that being what is written in their holy book.
Also I generally don't mock people for their beliefs unless their belief causes some harm to another person. Homosexuals currently are pretty badly down trodden by society and I will argue against homophobia pretty strongly as I don't think it has any rational basis. I basically see it as the same type of thing as racism or sexism, a belief passed down from your parents which actually has no real foundation. It just happens that Christianity is currently the major cause of homophobia in the west.

Also its dogmatics, not dogmathics.

"I don't know what you're missing but it makes all the difference in the world. If they in fact have a mental condition then their perceived gender identity is no more valid a perception than someone who sees things that aren't there. If someone who is Bipolar has a manic episode nobody thinks its ok to let them do what they think/feel is right because they are not capable of making those decisions rationally. So why would it be any less morally objectionable to allow someone who has another mental condition to act on their delusions simply because they don't seem as strange?

From what I read on wikipedia it is pretty well established as a psychiatric issue and is dealt with on the mental side of medicine not the physical. But aside from that I have a very hard time believing that somebody of sound mind would fully believe that they were a man trapped in a woman's body or vice versa. Granted everyone has issues, but that just strikes me as a textbook delusion. There are 3 criteria to meet the modern psychatric standard for a diagnosis of delusional (quoting from wikipedia):

* certainty (held with absolute conviction)
* incorrigibility (not changeable by compelling counterargument or proof to the contrary)
* impossibility or falsity of content (implausible, bizarre or patently untrue)

They definitely hold the view with conviction, thier own body and DNA is proof to the contrary, and its fairly implausible and definitely bizarre. So yeah, delusional seems to be a factually correct term to use for this."

Do you agree that the best answer for a mental illness is treatment?
The only treatment that allows people with gender identity disorder to live a normal life is to give them a sex change. Even if they are delusional there is no way to get rid of the delusion.

Basically it comes down to two options if you consider it to be a delusion.
1. Let the person live a happy life by changing their body to match their delusion (no harm done to anybody)
2. Don't let them live a happy life by refusing to allow a sex change as they are merely delusional (a lot of harm done to the individual)

I don't see how you can argue for the second one?

@Grey Acumen.
Where do you get the idea that there are no emotional or mental differences between males and females? Just because humanity has finally got over the idea that males are superior to females doesn't mean there are no differences between the sexes.

i think i would hate to be alive....but its never happend to me so i cant say

@rath

1st you need to indent the quotes as it is very long.
2nd Having childern is where all the problems come in. That is where people go from doing their own thing to harming others.

Now before anyone starts to reply the issue is not the lesser of 2 evils (foster care, abusive parents, etc) it is whether or not these things create an unhealthy enviroment for children to be raised in. And from all the stuff I have read the answer, with homosexuals, is yes. Now I do not know with transexuals but I would say it also creates an unhealthy enviroment probably even more so.

It's a little f**ked up, but isn't it a little more f**ked up that us randoms on the internet are discussing this, along with Homosexuality? This thread is more f**ked up! lol

well then guess what?!!
ur parent is trans!!

omg who would have thought of that? :-o
i nvr would have guessed.

 From all the stuff you have read? What have you been reading?

"there is no scientific evidence that parenting effectiveness is related to parental sexual orientation: lesbian and gay parents are as likely as heterosexual parents to provide supportive and healthy environments for their children"

http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbc/policy/parents.html

American Psychological Association.