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Forums - Politics - US Has Allegedly Killed 1400+ Civilians In the Past Month

Eagle367 said:
VGPolyglot said:

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/drone-war/data/the-bush-years-pakistan-strikes-2004-2009

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/drone-war/data/obama-2009-pakistan-strikes

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/drone-war/data/obama-2010-pakistan-strikes

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/drone-war/data/obama-2011-pakistan-strikes

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/drone-war/data/obama-2012-pakistan-strikes

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/drone-war/data/obama-2013-pakistan-drone-strikes

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/drone-war/data/obama-2014-pakistan-drone-strikes

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/drone-war/data/obama-2015-pakistan-drone-strikes

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/drone-war/data/obama-2016-pakistan-drone-strikes

http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/first-drone-strike-in-pakistan-under-trump-kills-2-militants/story-RHejddmCHDupOV7qdd3ewL.html

Even this seems bull. Way more civilians are killed then that the ratio of civilian killed to terrorist killed is much higher

It was mainly to show him that the United States has been continually striking the United States since 2004. The numbers are from the CIA it looks, so it's pretty authoritative in regards to the existence of the drone program, but I can't comment on its accuracy of the militant:civilian ratio, because I don't know.



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RolStoppable said:
VGPolyglot said:

(lots of links)

I had to go back a few years to find a death toll for civilians in the double digits for a full year of strikes. Didn't go further back because I don't consider it recent anymore.

Eagle367 said:

See the biased corporate media. It has happened as I said hundreds of times with no coverage from western media whatsoever. You probably don't even know if terrorism has gotten worse or better in Pakistan since western media never reports on a terror attack here as compared to France or the like

After looking through the latter half of the links, I can't say that there should have been coverage. Most of the stats suggest efficiency with very little to no civil casualities. This pales in comparison to the headline of this thread.

The government themselves acknowledges however, that it's an estimate, as they admit that they do know exactly how many civilians they kill:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/01/obama-drones-strikes-civilian-deaths



RolStoppable said:
VGPolyglot said:

(lots of links)

I had to go back a few years to find a death toll for civilians in the double digits for a full year of strikes. Didn't go further back because I don't consider it recent anymore.

Eagle367 said:

See the biased corporate media. It has happened as I said hundreds of times with no coverage from western media whatsoever. You probably don't even know if terrorism has gotten worse or better in Pakistan since western media never reports on a terror attack here as compared to France or the like

After looking through the latter half of the links, I can't say that there should have been coverage. Most of the stats suggest efficiency with very little to no civil casualities. This pales in comparison to the headline of this thread.

EDIT: Okay, you say that the posted links are nonsense. It is probably for the best to be skeptical, but I am not going to take your word as the truth either.

I live in the country  and get local news about civilians dying in drone strikes many times and also

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/24/-sp-us-drone-strikes-kill-1147

https://www.google.com/amp/foreignpolicy.com/2016/04/25/drones-kill-more-civilians-than-pilots-do/amp/

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_561fafe2e4b028dd7ea6c4ff

Again Pakistan is no war zone and USA has no business with launching drones over our heads. It does not have the authority to do whatever it pleases in any country that it pleases. Imagine USA doing that in Britain or France and killing hundreds to find some terrorist that no one has heard of even. Our military and government have also been criticised for letting this happen but they turn a blind eye for a good relationship with Murica. The Taliban that Murica created is still causing trouble here and before 1970 almost no Pakistani had heard of a klashinkov gun but now everyone knows about it. Murica did it all to defeat Russia and are spineless government helped them for sure but USA left all those weapons for the Taliban for free and the Russians fled so their weapons also and they trained the Taliban at first. Heck Usama bin Ladin was working for Murica before anything else he did. How can anyone call such a country a morally justified nation. The people are amazong but the government, Pentagon and CIA are all kinds of messed up. Did you also know that congress almost always supports the president with regards to wat but almost never with regards to peace, treaties and negotiations. It tells you something about them doesn't it



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

VGPolyglot said:
Aura7541 said:

What does that have to do with actus reus vs mens rea?

The United States was more than aware of the situation. They were involved directly, like in the 1990s in the Gulf War when the Saudis gave them massive amounts of money in order to do their bidding. They are also selling weapons to the Saudis so they can attack the rebels in Yemen. They also gave Saudi Arabia hundreds of millions of dollars of aid in the 1970s.

This proves the guilty act, but not necessarily the guilty mind. Appeasing Saudi Arabia does not necessarily mean endorsing Wahhabism. The US wanted to maintain a "good" relationship with Saudi Arabia for economical reasons and prevent a dictator from going even more wild. However, in the US's naiveté, it has led to the growth of Wahhabism. Overall, it's more of the US being very oblivious to the long-term repurcussions than the US having the actual intent of promoting Islamization. We see the same pattern with Afghanistan and Iraq.

There's also the possible scenario where the US was aware of the situation, but didn't believe that widespread Islamization would occur. So again, naiveté.



Aura7541 said:
VGPolyglot said:

The United States was more than aware of the situation. They were involved directly, like in the 1990s in the Gulf War when the Saudis gave them massive amounts of money in order to do their bidding. They are also selling weapons to the Saudis so they can attack the rebels in Yemen. They also gave Saudi Arabia hundreds of millions of dollars of aid in the 1970s.

This proves the guilty act, but not necessarily the guilty mind. Appeasing Saudi Arabia does not necessarily mean endorsing Wahhabism. The US wanted to maintain a "good" relationship with Saudi Arabia for economical reasons and prevent a dictator from going even more wild. However, in the US's naiveté, it has led to the growth of Wahhabism. Overall, it's more of the US being very oblivious to the long-term repurcussions than the US having the actual intent of promoting Islamization. We see the same pattern with Afghanistan and Iraq.

There's also the possible scenario where the US was aware of the situation, but didn't believe that widespread Islamization would occur. So again, naiveté.

Well, they should know by now, yet they're still close allies with Saudi Arabia.



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VGPolyglot said:
Aura7541 said:

This proves the guilty act, but not necessarily the guilty mind. Appeasing Saudi Arabia does not necessarily mean endorsing Wahhabism. The US wanted to maintain a "good" relationship with Saudi Arabia for economical reasons and prevent a dictator from going even more wild. However, in the US's naiveté, it has led to the growth of Wahhabism. Overall, it's more of the US being very oblivious to the long-term repurcussions than the US having the actual intent of promoting Islamization. We see the same pattern with Afghanistan and Iraq.

There's also the possible scenario where the US was aware of the situation, but didn't believe that widespread Islamization would occur. So again, naiveté.

Well, they should know by now, yet they're still close allies with Saudi Arabia.

I think it's because the US is still very dependent on foreign oil. If the US is energy independent, I highly doubt they will still be allies with Saudi Arabia.



Aura7541 said:
VGPolyglot said:

The United States was more than aware of the situation. They were involved directly, like in the 1990s in the Gulf War when the Saudis gave them massive amounts of money in order to do their bidding. They are also selling weapons to the Saudis so they can attack the rebels in Yemen. They also gave Saudi Arabia hundreds of millions of dollars of aid in the 1970s.

This proves the guilty act, but not necessarily the guilty mind. Appeasing Saudi Arabia does not necessarily mean endorsing Wahhabism. The US wanted to maintain a "good" relationship with Saudi Arabia for economical reasons and prevent a dictator from going even more wild. However, in the US's naiveté, it has led to the growth of Wahhabism. Overall, it's more of the US being very oblivious to the long-term repurcussions than the US having the actual intent of promoting Islamization. We see the same pattern with Afghanistan and Iraq.

There's also the possible scenario where the US was aware of the situation, but didn't believe that widespread Islamization would occur. So again, naiveté.

Yeah like the USA is so naive like totally. Look at her being all shy over there while Saudi Arabia gets her way. USA just wants to be friendly that's why she slapped Iran but Saudi Arabia is totes taking advantage of her.

Give me a break the USA and naive are polar opposites. They have the most over funded army in the world and one of the best if not the best intelligence agencies in CIA. They let Saudi Arabia have its way because Saudis throw dem oil cash at their faces. The Saudis make them dance like monkeys getting bananas. The USA has a serious agenda and helping anantbody for the sake of goodness and humanity is not even in the same universe as USA's agenda. USA is just as responsible if not the prime number 1 reason for the mess in the middle east



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Aura7541 said:
VGPolyglot said:

Well, they should know by now, yet they're still close allies with Saudi Arabia.

I think it's because the US is still very dependent on foreign oil. If the US is energy independent, I highly doubt they will still be allies with Saudi Arabia.

Oil and Saudi lobbying. Its all about the cold cash. Even the wars in the middle east make money for big private firms of USA even if the country itself looses trillions. The elite if USA don't care about humanity ethics or decency. They are just as psychotic, mentally depraved and scum as the terrorists of daesh, taliban, alqaeda, book harem, shiv sena, kkkor any other terrorist



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

d21lewis said:
Sometimes it makes you wonder who the good guys are and who's the villain.

Innocent people die when you ignore it. Innocent people die when you get involved.

If we're looking at intent, I think we know who the bad guys are.



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