thismeintiel said: Cloudman said: Hahaa~ totally called it. I knew he was going to bring it up as soon as the attacks on him happened. Back to the topic, I do think Jim's points have merits, but I don't agree that some of them are as bad as he claims. Sometimes I just have issue with the way he presents his points. He over exaggerates them to the point of being somewhat comical, and speaks in a way as if he's correct and it's absolute. Sure, sometimes it may be tied to his character, or for humor, but they're the same reason why sometimes I don't fully take his opinion. Also, I find it funny that now 7 seems to be a fine score when sometimes in the past it was seen as above average, and well, I think Zelda: BotW is more than that. A 7 means good.  For some reason last gen, many reviewers were handing out 9s and 10s like candy.  Even if the game had technical issues or were just average/above average, in terms of graphics/gameplay.  The scoring system got all out of skew and it basically reverted to school grading.  Where 10 was perfect (or damn near it), 9 was an A, or excellent, 8 was B, or above average, and 7 was a C, or average.  A 69 and lower were seen as completely shitty games, no matter what.  That messes things up because you only have a 21 percentile range where people thought a game was worth buying leaving the other 79% to mean basically the same thing, not worth your time, regardless if a game may still be fun, but flawed. This gen has seen some reviewers actually try to get back to the old format.  Of course, some readers are still screwed up by last gen, so they still think 7 is just an average game, or some may just say 7 and below are shitty.  But, here's the real ratings. 1/10 - Unplayable Mess 2/10 - Nearly Unplayable 3/10 - Poor 4/10 - Below Average 5/10 - Average 6/10 - Above Average 7/10 - Good 8/10 - Very Good/Great 9/ 10 - Excellent 10/10 - Perfect (Or Damn Near It)

That does still seem to be the case today, at least I've seen sometimes. There is still that stigma that games in the 7 and 6 range falls into a so-so game, which means a game still may be enjoyable, but has its issues. I don't really much to say about reviewers and how they score these days. I've had times where I agreed and disagreed with scores, but it's hard to criticize reviewers and their scores when I haven't properly played many of the games they reviewed.

My main issue is that I think Zelda is more than just good, hense why I don't agree with Jim's score.

I started this conversation with stating how unreasonable it was for you to present information that people could not verify and expect them to believe it, and seemingly getting upset when they didn't.  But even if I didn't, I think it should be clear that I wasn't just asking if you'd done research out of sheer curiosity,  but because I was actually interested in the research itself.  I thought that was clear.  If it wasn't, I clarified it so it definitely should be now.

You are playing the developer card, using that to make an argument from authority, and then refusing to back up the data.  And when I ask you to present the data you get indignant and sarcastic about it with things like  "Of course, I'll just break my NDAs and get my ass sued to prove a point on the internet! Again, it's the internet. I could not care less whether you believe me or not."  

To repeat myself, all I'm saying is that if you don't have the data or can't present it, then you shouldn't bring it up, because it adds nothing to the conversation.  If it exists, and you can talk about it, great.  Talk about it.  If it doesn't exist, or you can't talk about it, then ok.  Don't talk about it.  Which seems to me fairly reasonable.  And if your reaction to that is to get defensive and act like I'm demanding that you reveal super secret information, then I can see why your interactions with Nintendo fans can be unpleasant.

Still don't want to defend him but oh well, there are people like me that took the freedom from the start and didn't follow the story at all. The game never explained dodging and parrying to me (I found out from my kids that it is explained in Kariko village which I haven't gotten to yet), nor the use of fairies, or upgrades. I went straight into the Gerudo mountains, getting one hit killed everywhere, no room to experiment with dodging and parrying anyway. Not that that discouraged me, you don't really need those risky moves. Once you learn their patterns and stay out of the way or raise the shield in time you're fine. But sure it's a bit odd to find out after 70 hours that I've missed half the basic things you can do in combat. In that regard my experience with it is a lot like Dark souls. I didn't know you could jump until 27 hours in... 

Anyway I'm still getting one hit killed, but I don't mind, saves having to heal and make food lol. Don't get hit at all or reload and do it right. Dark souls was easier in combat, just difficult since you have to start over every time. Zelda lets you save after every kill which saves it from becoming frustrating. It would be nice though to conquer a camp without having to pick up new weapons multiple times.

Sure, but none of this is relevant in his case because he did do the main story (at least eventually, in order to review the game) and he mentioned "gear upgrades" which means he knows where to find fairies (don't want to spoil it for you beyond that.) 

100% agree. I knew i wouldn't like the system, and i didn't.

I don't know whats wrong with these fans that can't fathom that not everything in BotW is perfect. I still say that it's ridiculous to give it 10/10 with all the flaws it has. People should actually question why there are so many 10/10's rather than a few non-10's that dared to deduce points over these flaws. Those were the honest ones.

Mhm everybody is wrong except the people who give it 6's and 7's. Please. 

It's not the first time and it won't be the last.

For example, just recently they reveled on FFXV. How did that turn out after playing it? 

It's hype reviews, not honest reviews. The scores on this game are beeing bumped by the switch hype. That is undeniable. The game wouldn't have reviewed as well if it came out only on the wii u, for example. I call that disonesty. Because i end up spending money on a game that i end up so bored with that i don't feel like playing.

Now, someone else bought it in my house, so i get to play it, but i wouldn't have otherwise because i hate durability mechanics.

He is absolutly right, aside from other problems the game have, the durability system is an atrocity, its imersion breaking, makes you hoard strong weapons you never get to use cause you don't want them to break, snaps you out of the action needing you to equip new weapons when they break, litter the world with weapons dropping left and right to satiate thegame's need to chew trough your weapons non stop and just reminds you at every turn you are playing a game and yanking you out of the experience. The more I play the game the more I feel like strangling the dev who came up with this system and ruined half of my fun.

I don't agree its the same situation as FF XV, the meta for that game is 81, the game got mostly pretty hoenst reviews pointing out many flaws but praising te strong points of the game wich are there and are plenty. Zelda on the other hand has a bunch of super fans "journalists" just gushing on the game and riding the hype and completly ignoring all the glaring flaws. Jim at least dared to be honest about how he felt and scrutnize probably the bigest flaw in this game.

Yet the game is getting plenty of acclaim amongst fans and new players to the series alike. Your (and Jim's) opinions are a very small minority. The overwhelming majority of people think this game is a 9,10, or something in between. You can argue that it is hype, but more often than not hyped games get demolished when they don't live up to it. This game has, for most people. 

FFXV has many more mixed reviews than BOTW. It even has a lower score than FFXIII which was a low point in the series review wise. 

Sore to break that to you but there ar eplenty of ppl that think BoTW is super overhyped on the reviews, I don't think I know anybody that think its bad but I don't think I know anyone who wasn't already a super Zelda fan who actualy thinks this game is anywhere near a 10.