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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Will MGS4 live up to MGS2?

rocketpig said:
Dragon007 said:
rocketpig said:
Anyway, as for this "deep" philosophy... Did all of this occur before or after the parts where Snake hides from enemies in cardboard boxes and looks at titty magazines to cure nausea?

You guys are being ridiculous, hiding from enemies in cardboard boxes was just a humorous gameplay mechanic, and looking at dirty magazines to cure nausea is a feature in MGS4.

In the end it's just a game, a fantasy one at that, it's not meant to be realistic or on par with a Kubrick movie.


Then it shouldn't try to tackle those subjects, especially when Kojima is mixing in "humorous" (I prefer to call them downright ridiculous) elements to the game.

I think the scene in Andrew Ryan's office was much more powerful than anything MGS2 had to offer, and even then I was a bit letdown by how BioShock handled Objectivism. 


Whether it's humorous or not is a matter of opinion, but questioning the realism of a fantasy game is downright ridiculous, and I really don't think Kojima intended for MGS2 to be compared to 2001: A Space Odyssey.



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Dragon007 said:

Whether it's humorous or not is a matter of opinion, but questioning the realism of a fantasy game is downright ridiculous...


Then Hideo shouldn't have tried to tackle intense aspects of realism in a Fantasy Game.

Dragon007 said:

 and I really don't think Kojima intended for MGS2 to be compared to 2001: A Space Odyssey.

Then Kojima shouldn't have tried to play Stanley Kubrick.



He always talks about cinema and games and then tackled an extremely complicated subject in a very serious manner in his game... If he's not trying to add depth to the game, he coulda fooled me.

In any case, he failed in that regard.




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Maybe you hould have actually listened to the ending because you obviously have no clue what it was about.. It was easily the most intelligent and profound ending of any video game, it actually spoke a message to you and made you think.



Raiden, are you receiving? We're still here.

Raiden: How's that possible!? The AI was destroyed!

Colonel: Only GW.

Raiden: Who are you?

...blah blah blah

That entire conversation is rambling, schizophrenic nonsense. I really don't feel like subjecting myself to it all again and going through it line-by-line to explain why, but I assure you that's the case. Read it again. You know all that stuff you thought was deep because you didn't understand it? No. It's just bullshit. The time-cube guy can sound deep too if you start from the assumption that he's smarter than you.

Just for an example:
Colonel: The digital society furthers human flaws and selectively rewards development of convenient half-truths. Just look at the strange juxtapositions of morality around you.

Rose: Billions spent on new weapons in order to humanely murder other humans.

Colonel: Rights of criminals are given more respect than the privacy of their victims.

Rose: Although there are people suffering in poverty, huge donations are made to protect endangered species. Everyone grows up being told the same thing.

Colonel: Be nice to other people.

Rose: But beat out the competition!

Colonel: "You're special." "Believe in yourself and you will succeed."

Rose: But it's obvious from the start that only a few can succeed...

Colonel: You exercise your right to "freedom" and this is the result. All rhetoric to avoid conflict and protect each other from hurt. The untested truths spun by different interests continue to churn and accumulate in the sandbox of political correctness and value systems.

Rose: Everyone withdraws into their own small gated community, afraid of a larger forum. They stay inside their little ponds, leaking whatever "truth" suits them into the growing cesspool of society at large.

Colonel: The different cardinal truths neither clash nor mesh. No one is invalidated, but nobody is right.

Rose: Not even natural selection can take place here. The world is being engulfed in "truth."

Colonel: And this is the way the world ends. Not with a bang, but a whimper.

Just look at that. Good god, how many irrelevant and unconnected ideas were crammed into those few lines? What do any of them have to do with "selectively rewarding development of convenient half-truths"? What does that even mean? I assure you that Kojima didn't know when he (or whoever) wrote it.



I was going to post more, but others, mostly rocketpig have covered it nicely. MGS2 was kojima's attempt at something philosophical and intelligent, it failed. It succeeds nicely for teenagers that think the matrix is deep shit (which also had some professors write about it, and some college courses that taught about the matrix), but it's really just a garbled mess of pseudo-intellectualism for high school students.



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The digital society furthers human flaws and selectively rewards development of convenient half-truths. Just look at the strange juxtapositions of morality around you.


ROFL. Classic.




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The_vagabond7 said:
I was going to post more, but others, mostly rocketpig have covered it nicely. MGS2 was kojima's attempt at something philosophical and intelligent, it failed. It succeeds nicely for teenagers that think the matrix is deep shit (which also had some professors write about it, and some college courses that taught about the matrix), but it's really just a garbled mess of pseudo-intellectualism for high school students.

Dude, you win. You got around to slamming The Matrix before I had a chance at it. Damn.




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In b4 people start defending the Matrix as deep.



Well, now that this has settled... Who wants to start slamming anime?




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Onimusha12 said:
In b4 people start defending the Matrix as deep.

 I might have defended the Matrix if not for the fact that I saw Reloaded and Revolution. Total shit.

@rocketpig

Anime sucks.