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Forums - Politics - Rioting Breaks Out In Sweden

Slimebeast on 22 February 2017
Aura7541 said:
Slimebeast said:

Of course, but cultural background is included in the term "ethnicity".

Right, but ethnicity is a general term since it contains multiple attributes. Cultural background is still a bit general, but it does narrow things down to specific variables such as laws and customs.

We're totally on the same page you and I.

I'm fine with either term. "Ethnicity" is a much wider term just like you say. "Cultural" is often more to the point, but not always so practical in discussions including statistics and fact.s

So it comes down to practicality. I know that ethnicity is an accepted term in criminology worldwide, so I prefered to use that in this discussion. Like you can see, the discussion is being complicated by confusion about terminology. And I refuse to fall in the trap of discussing just "race".



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VGPolyglot on 22 February 2017
Slimebeast said:
VGPolyglot said:

Well, here's what I found in regards to ethnicity: Ethnicity, however, refers to cultural factors, including nationality, regional culture, ancestry, and language.

OK, so many Swedes born from immigrants have Swedish nationality, can speak Swedish, and are familiar with the culture of Sweden. So it cannot be those thigns that you are talking. So you must be talking about things like their ancestry (in other words, their race).

Just look up on the definition in Wikipedia:

An ethnic group or ethnicity is a category of people who identify with each other based on similarities, such as common ancestral, language, social, cultural or national experiences.[1][2] Unlike other social groups (wealth, age, hobbies), ethnicity is often an inherited status based on the society in which one lives. In some cases, it can be adopted if a person moves into another society. Membership of an ethnic group tends to be defined by a shared cultural heritage, ancestry, origin myth, history, homeland, language or dialect, symbolic systems such as religion, mythology and ritual, cuisine, dressing style, art, and physical appearance.

Ethnic groups, derived from the same historical founder population, often continue to speak related languages and share a similar gene pool. By way of language shift, acculturation, adoption and religious conversion, it is sometimes possible for individuals or groups to leave one ethnic group and become part of another (except for ethnic groups emphasizing racial purity as a key membership criterion).

Ethnicity is often used synonymously with ambiguous terms such as nation or people. In English, it can also have the connotation of something exotic (cf. "White ethnic", "ethnic restaurant", etc.), generally related to cultures of more recent immigrants, who arrived after the founding population of an area was established.

Depending on which source of group identity is emphasized to define membership, the following types of (often mutually overlapping) groups can be identified:

In many cases – for instance, the sense of Jewish peoplehood – more than one aspect determines membership.

---------

You really don't believe this affects criminal behaviour?

And just no. Race is only a small part of the wide concept of ethnicity.

I use the term ethnicity on this subject, because it includes culture and foreign origin, and not just purely socio-economic factors or citizenship.

How can this be so hard to understand?

But as I said, many immigrants that are born in Sweden speak the language, have the nationality and are familiar with the culture. That mainly leaves ethno-racial and ethno-religious reasons. Also considering a previous thread where you're talking about race in regards to IQ, it's not hard to conclude that race is what concerns you the most.



Peh on 22 February 2017
Slimebeast said:
Peh said:

"Just like it's done in research and in official statistics all over the world."

All you have to do is backup your claim. Why is it so difficult for you? It's to be safe that your claims are actually supported and not just nonsensical.

When I follow your logical then I can safely assume that YOUR offsprings will be just as racistic as you are. Is that correct?

How does integration work then? How do compromisses are possible at all? Why are people leaving the culture of their parents? Things like that shouldn't be possible according to you.

"Just like it's done in research and in official statistics all over the world." was in reference to VGPolyglot questioning whether it's relevant to compare crime commited by the offspring of immigrants with crime commited by ethnic Swedes.

This official Swedish government report does just that:

https://www.pdf-archive.com/2011/05/08/br-1996-2-invandrares-och-invandrares-barns-brottslighet-1/

"Criminal acitivity of immigrants and their children"

I don't undestand swedish. At least, I try and post an english source, so everyone on this board can read it. I mean, I could post "Mein Kampf" in german to prove why Jews are bad. Does this make it a credible source? Not that I am comparing "Mein Kampf" to whatever your source is.



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Aura7541 on 22 February 2017
Peh said:
Slimebeast said:

"Just like it's done in research and in official statistics all over the world." was in reference to VGPolyglot questioning whether it's relevant to compare crime commited by the offspring of immigrants with crime commited by ethnic Swedes.

This official Swedish government report does just that:

https://www.pdf-archive.com/2011/05/08/br-1996-2-invandrares-och-invandrares-barns-brottslighet-1/

"Criminal acitivity of immigrants and their children"

I don't undestand swedish. At least, I try and post an english source, so everyone on this board can read it. I mean, I could post "Mein Kampf" in german to prove why Jews are bad. Does this make it credible source? Not that I am comparing "Mein Kampf" to whatever your source is.

You know, there's an English summary at the end of that study.....



Slimebeast on 22 February 2017
Peh said:
Slimebeast said:

"Just like it's done in research and in official statistics all over the world." was in reference to VGPolyglot questioning whether it's relevant to compare crime commited by the offspring of immigrants with crime commited by ethnic Swedes.

This official Swedish government report does just that:

https://www.pdf-archive.com/2011/05/08/br-1996-2-invandrares-och-invandrares-barns-brottslighet-1/

"Criminal acitivity of immigrants and their children"

I don't undestand swedish. At least, I try and post an english source, so everyone on this board can read it. I mean, I could post "Mein Kampf" in german to prove why Jews are bad. Does this make it credible source? Not that I am comparing "Mein Kampf" to whatever your source is.

I guess you'll just have to take my word for it, or look it up yourself.

My main point is proven in the title though, "Criminal acitivity of immigrants and their children", and that by the fact that it's an official study on crime. The concept of "immigrant offspring" in the context of criminal behaviour is firm. It's just ridiculous to question it.

Fuck, this discussion takes a lot of energy.



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Slimebeast on 22 February 2017
VGPolyglot said:
Slimebeast said:

Just look up on the definition in Wikipedia:

An ethnic group or ethnicity is a category of people who identify with each other based on similarities, such as common ancestral, language, social, cultural or national experiences.[1][2] Unlike other social groups (wealth, age, hobbies), ethnicity is often an inherited status based on the society in which one lives. In some cases, it can be adopted if a person moves into another society. Membership of an ethnic group tends to be defined by a shared cultural heritage, ancestry, origin myth, history, homeland, language or dialect, symbolic systems such as religion, mythology and ritual, cuisine, dressing style, art, and physical appearance.

Ethnic groups, derived from the same historical founder population, often continue to speak related languages and share a similar gene pool. By way of language shift, acculturation, adoption and religious conversion, it is sometimes possible for individuals or groups to leave one ethnic group and become part of another (except for ethnic groups emphasizing racial purity as a key membership criterion).

Ethnicity is often used synonymously with ambiguous terms such as nation or people. In English, it can also have the connotation of something exotic (cf. "White ethnic", "ethnic restaurant", etc.), generally related to cultures of more recent immigrants, who arrived after the founding population of an area was established.

Depending on which source of group identity is emphasized to define membership, the following types of (often mutually overlapping) groups can be identified:

In many cases – for instance, the sense of Jewish peoplehood – more than one aspect determines membership.

---------

You really don't believe this affects criminal behaviour?

And just no. Race is only a small part of the wide concept of ethnicity.

I use the term ethnicity on this subject, because it includes culture and foreign origin, and not just purely socio-economic factors or citizenship.

How can this be so hard to understand?

But as I said, many immigrants that are born in Sweden speak the language, have the nationality and are familiar with the culture. That mainly leaves ethno-racial and ethno-religious reasons. Also considering a previous thread where you're talking about race in regards to IQ, it's not hard to conclude that race is what concerns you the most.

No.

Cultural background is much more important to me than race. Race itself is unimportant. Race is largely a statistical marker for cultural background in many contexts (meaning that there is often a statistical, but not so much causal, correlation between race and cultural behaviour), but I repeat, race itself, a person's skincolor, is unimportant.



VGPolyglot on 22 February 2017
Aura7541 said:
Peh said:

I don't undestand swedish. At least, I try and post an english source, so everyone on this board can read it. I mean, I could post "Mein Kampf" in german to prove why Jews are bad. Does this make it credible source? Not that I am comparing "Mein Kampf" to whatever your source is.

You know, there's an English summary at the end of that study.....

Yes, and it says that 16% of crimes are perpetrated by immigrants, and that a lot of it is because the children of children of immigrants, who are more adjusted to Swedish culture, are more likely to commit crimes. The first-generation immigrants who are less familiar with Swedish culture are less likely to commit crimes.

Edit: OK, maybe I read it incorrectly, because what Peh wrote is different from what I said.



Peh on 22 February 2017
Aura7541 said:
Peh said:

I don't undestand swedish. At least, I try and post an english source, so everyone on this board can read it. I mean, I could post "Mein Kampf" in german to prove why Jews are bad. Does this make it credible source? Not that I am comparing "Mein Kampf" to whatever your source is.

You know, there's an English summary at the end of that study.....

No, I didn't know and didn't expected to be a english summary there. But thanks for the reminder, went through with it and it condradicts what Slimebeast is claiming. Thanks for the tip.



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Peh on 22 February 2017
Slimebeast said:
Peh said:

"Just like it's done in research and in official statistics all over the world."

All you have to do is backup your claim. Why is it so difficult for you? It's to be safe that your claims are actually supported and not just nonsensical.

When I follow your logical then I can safely assume that YOUR offsprings will be just as racistic as you are. Is that correct?

How does integration work then? How do compromisses are possible at all? Why are people leaving the culture of their parents? Things like that shouldn't be possible according to you.

"Just like it's done in research and in official statistics all over the world." was in reference to VGPolyglot questioning whether it's relevant to compare crime commited by the offspring of immigrants with crime commited by ethnic Swedes.

This official Swedish government report does just that:

https://www.pdf-archive.com/2011/05/08/br-1996-2-invandrares-och-invandrares-barns-brottslighet-1/

"Criminal acitivity of immigrants and their children"

Quote from your source: 

Representatives ofthe police and the social authorities have expressed the opinion that at present the children ofimmigrants are the largest political criminality problem in Swedish society. The findings of this survey, to a certain extent, refute this; the children of immigrants commit less crime than immigrants. In principle this applies to all countries of origin surveyed. Since immigrants have not tended to increase their criminal activities since the survey period, we can say it is unlikely the children of immigrants will either. On the other hand, the number of children of immigrants in the country has increased quite considerably, which could be the reason why they are more visible in the crime staristics. The problem with the above conclusions is the fact that the children of immigrants in the survey were for the most part children ofimmigrant labour. It is therefore, possible that the picture has altered because it is now the children of refugee immigrants who are approaching the age when criminal activity is most common. However, some children included in the survey have parents who come from countries that have always generated a flow of refugees. Mainly the East European countries but also Jordan, Palestine and Syria. Nothing indicates that these children display a clearly higher tendency towards crime participation than the generation of their parents. On the contrary. It would be correct to say that generally these children display a noticably lower tendency to crime participation compared with their parental generation than is the case as found in the S4:rvey of other countries of origin.

Thanks for the Link Slimebeast. Send a copy to your biology teacher or whoever taught you that.

 

 

 

 



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Lawlight on 22 February 2017
VGPolyglot said:
Lawlight said:

So, you're saying Mummelmann is lying?

If he said that something happened the day before Trump's rally, then yes. However, I highly doubt that he said that.

He said the media doesn't cover the riots. So, how would you know?