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Forums - Microsoft - Will the Scorpio own the PS4Pro in EVERY hardware category?

Pemalite on 07 January 2017
Snoopy said:

I thought xbox 2 coming in 2019 to be honest. If 2020, the 9th gen xbox will have around 10 tf I think. Still will make xbox scorpio relevant, they just need downsize rez/fps/textures/ect. Also, this is the whole point of UWP. Make one game for windows 10/xbox consoles and it will downscale automatically.

So you think the next generation consoles will only have 40% more theoretical single precision floating point GPU performance? No point having a new Generation... Considering there is diminishing returns every time you double graphics quality.

Snoopy said:

Scorpio would probably last just as long as the 9th gen consoles. The difference between xbox scorpio and "xbox 2" will be about 2tflops in terms of gpu. Run all the games, just on lower rez/fps.

Okay. But what about actual performance? Flops is useless.




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Snoopy on 08 January 2017
Pemalite said:
Snoopy said:

I thought xbox 2 coming in 2019 to be honest. If 2020, the 9th gen xbox will have around 10 tf I think. Still will make xbox scorpio relevant, they just need downsize rez/fps/textures/ect. Also, this is the whole point of UWP. Make one game for windows 10/xbox consoles and it will downscale automatically.

So you think the next generation consoles will only have 40% more theoretical single precision floating point GPU performance? No point having a new Generation... Considering there is diminishing returns every time you double graphics quality.

Snoopy said:

Scorpio would probably last just as long as the 9th gen consoles. The difference between xbox scorpio and "xbox 2" will be about 2tflops in terms of gpu. Run all the games, just on lower rez/fps.

Okay. But what about actual performance? Flops is useless.

The difference between xbox one and xbox 2 will be about 10 tflops (regular xbox one has about 1.5 tf). Xbox scoropio is a mid way gap for those hardcore gamers and later be used as way to get people into the 9th gen gaming without paying a lot. At least that is what I am thinking.



Pemalite on 08 January 2017
Snoopy said:
Pemalite said:

So you think the next generation consoles will only have 40% more theoretical single precision floating point GPU performance? No point having a new Generation... Considering there is diminishing returns every time you double graphics quality.

Okay. But what about actual performance? Flops is useless.

The difference between xbox one and xbox 2 will be about 10 tflops (regular xbox one has about 1.5 tf). Xbox scoropio is a mid way gap for those hardcore gamers and later be used as way to get people into the 9th gen gaming without paying a lot. At least that is what I am thinking.

So... It won't be twice as powerful as Scorpio then? If we base it on flops alone. (Which you dodged my question of what the actual performance is, so it's all I have to base anything on...)
What is the point of kickstarting a new Generation when the performance gap of about 10x between last gen and this gen is seen by many not to be large enough?




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

Snoopy on 08 January 2017
Pemalite said:
Snoopy said:

The difference between xbox one and xbox 2 will be about 10 tflops (regular xbox one has about 1.5 tf). Xbox scoropio is a mid way gap for those hardcore gamers and later be used as way to get people into the 9th gen gaming without paying a lot. At least that is what I am thinking.

So... It won't be twice as powerful as Scorpio then? If we base it on flops alone. (Which you dodged my question of what the actual performance is, so it's all I have to base anything on...)
What is the point of kickstarting a new Generation when the performance gap of about 10x between last gen and this gen is seen by many not to be large enough?

The difference between 10 tflops and 1 tflop is pretty huge. Means 4k/60fps with high textures. Remember these are consoles so they will get optimized better than their PC counterpart. Carmak said you need a PC with twice the tflops of a console to match it. Optimization will make a huge difference.



DonFerrari on 09 January 2017
kowenicki said:
DonFerrari said:

I'm sure you are more credible in this matter than Digital Foundry right?

Common sense should tell you it doesn't and CAN'T look as good.  There is no magic to make it so, especially when thinhgs get busy.

The PS4 Pro is nearly here but the debate on how beneficial its 4K upscaling can be compared to native 4K rendering is still on-going. Which one is better even if they both have their advantages depending on the hardware?

GamingBolt spoke to Mark Williams, technical director at VooFoo Studios which has worked on Mantis Burn Racing, and asked about Sony’s checkerboard rendering technique for 4K versus the native 4K that Project Scorpio is apparently offering.

Williams noted the differences and said, “Checkerboard rendering is a neat approach to achieving 4K when you don’t have the performance to do it natively, but it requires more work from a development perspective, and it can be tricky to make it look right. It’s never going to look as good as full 4K, though on relatively static scenes it can get close.

“In Mantis Burn Racing where everything on screen is moving by pretty fast, you’d see much less definition in the pixel detail than at full 4K. If the screen is changing much less per frame, then you can do temporal reprojection between frames to fill in the detail that you miss with checkerboard.”


Read more at http://gamingbolt.com/ps4-pros-checkerboard-4k-rendering-will-never-look-as-good-as-native-4k-requires-more-work#ZvACSXA5QLpVeUFu.99

  

So your proofing quote is agreeing more with me than with you? Because sorry to burst your bubble, but this guy (that isn't even designing high end game) is basically saying checkerboard is quite good although not as good as native (which is obvious), but your point were more on checkerboard being a lot inferior.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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Pemalite on 09 January 2017
DonFerrari said:

So your proofing quote is agreeing more with me than with you? Because sorry to burst your bubble, but this guy (that isn't even designing high end game) is basically saying checkerboard is quite good although not as good as native (which is obvious), but your point were more on checkerboard being a lot inferior.

Checkerboards quality is very dependent on the panel it is being viewed on and how far away you are viewing it.
The larger the panel+closer you are, the easier it is to see where it falls short.




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

DonFerrari on 09 January 2017
Pemalite said:
DonFerrari said:

So your proofing quote is agreeing more with me than with you? Because sorry to burst your bubble, but this guy (that isn't even designing high end game) is basically saying checkerboard is quite good although not as good as native (which is obvious), but your point were more on checkerboard being a lot inferior.

Checkerboards quality is very dependent on the panel it is being viewed on and how far away you are viewing it.
The larger the panel+closer you are, the easier it is to see where it falls short.

I aknowledge that. The point being that the DF analyst said that on the titles he was revewing (I believe it was TR) even very close the quality was superb and very hard to distinguish from native during normal usage (like 3ft away from a 55" monitor or something like it)

I game on 65" at about 5-7ft depending on the position so I would probably notice in some cases.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Pemalite on 09 January 2017
DonFerrari said:
Pemalite said:

Checkerboards quality is very dependent on the panel it is being viewed on and how far away you are viewing it.
The larger the panel+closer you are, the easier it is to see where it falls short.

I aknowledge that. The point being that the DF analyst said that on the titles he was revewing (I believe it was TR) even very close the quality was superb and very hard to distinguish from native during normal usage (like 3ft away from a 55" monitor or something like it)

I game on 65" at about 5-7ft depending on the position so I would probably notice in some cases.

If the screen was like 75" the difference would be pronounced.
Digital foundry isn't wrong, they are usually pretty bang on the money. And I'm not actually disagreeing with you. :P

On PC you can pick up the differences even easier. Most 4k monitors are like 30" or larger and you only sit inches away from them.
Basically it was a compromise for the hardware Sony opted with. And it's certainly works out better than having everything stuck at 1080P still.




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

sam987 on 09 January 2017

"Will the Scorpio own the PS4Pro in EVERY hardware category?"

Absolute! But who cares? The Scorpio will have one game, Halo, while the PS4Pro will 1001 exclusives...



walsufnir on 09 January 2017
sam987 said:
"Will the Scorpio own the PS4Pro in EVERY hardware category?"

Absolute! But who cares? The Scorpio will have one game, Halo, while the PS4Pro will 1001 exclusives...

We have a thread winner!