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Forums - Gaming - Opinion/rant: RPG's with level/city creators are stupid and lazy.

pokoko said:
ps3-sales! said:

Just my rant for the morning. Since getting my first gaming PC a whole new set of opportunities have opened up for me in the form of RPG games that I could not previously play on consoles; or play a better version of them on my stronger PC. 

Over the last week I had really wanted to download Fallout 4 to give it another try. I bought it (on launch) last year and was extremely hyped for it. Only to end up playing it for a single week and never again. The game was absolutely horrid in my opinion. Not even close to one of my favorite RPG's in Skyrim. The story (the most important aspect of an RPG in my opinion) contained some of the worst plots and characters I have ever seen. And overall was just flat out boring. 

However one of the main reasons I put it down and never looked back; had to do with the level editor. 

You see; I don't buy $60 games to waste my precious time doing what the developer is tasked to do. I'm not a game developer. I'm an Air Traffic Controller. That's like me asking people on this site to do my job. It's silly. 

The time spent developing that complex "creation tool" in Fallout 4 no doubt took away a decent amount of time that could have gone to story, visuals, characters etc. It simply should NOT be in an RPG game. If they have to add it, then add it at a later date as free DLC or some $5 add on months after people complete the main and side quests. Because that's the main point of RPG'S. 

Story and immersion. I got none of them from stupid mods that take me out of the game world. 

Some games are great with level creators. A couple that come to mind are obviously the likes of LittleBigPlanet, most Nintendo games, hell even Halo Reach I thought had a wonderful editor and was great fun for multiplayer matches. 

Level creation does not fit in Fallout 4. I don't want it for that reason. The majority of gamers don't buy a huge Bethesda RPG such as Fallout for a day 1 level creation mode. Sure some do. But rest assured most do not. 

Why do i care? Just don't use it? i get it. but i feel like development time could have gone elsewhere. And it seems very forced. I wanted to love Fallout 4. But could not. 

Anyway. /end

Is this a joke post?  I'm not even sure what is going on here.  

No? Skyrim does not have a level editor. Not sure what you are confused about. 



Currently own:

 

  • Ps4

 

Currently playing: Witcher 3, Walking Dead S1/2, GTA5, Dying Light, Tomb Raider Remaster, MGS Ground Zeros

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ps3-sales! said:
pokoko said:

Is this a joke post?  I'm not even sure what is going on here.  

No? Skyrim does not have a level editor. Not sure what you are confused about. 

"The Creation Kit is Skyrim's modding kit. Included are the tools needed to create custom content, using the game's files."   http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Creation_Kit



ps3-sales! said:
vivster said:
That Fallout is bad and boring is nothing really new. That's why we PC gamers play actual RPGs like Gothic.

Just quicklearened everything about Gothic on the interwebz in 5 min. 

I might download G3. Tips?

It's a broken mess that has some neat features (it's quite dynamic in a lot of ways, for example you can take over towns). I think there was an unofficial patch that improved things by quite a bit a long time ago, and it might be in the official release now. Maybe. Either way, if you end up getting the game, make sure to also grab the unofficial patch.



pokoko said:
ps3-sales! said:

No? Skyrim does not have a level editor. Not sure what you are confused about. 

"The Creation Kit is Skyrim's modding kit. Included are the tools needed to create custom content, using the game's files."   http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Creation_Kit

Figured that was the point you were trying to make. 

 

Mods are not the same as a level creation kit. 

 

Bethesda doesn't make mods for Skyrim at release. They didn't spend development time on them. 

 

They did however spend a lot of development on the level creation tools for fallout before release. 

 

Do you understand now?



Currently own:

 

  • Ps4

 

Currently playing: Witcher 3, Walking Dead S1/2, GTA5, Dying Light, Tomb Raider Remaster, MGS Ground Zeros

pokoko said:
ps3-sales! said:

No? Skyrim does not have a level editor. Not sure what you are confused about. 

"The Creation Kit is Skyrim's modding kit. Included are the tools needed to create custom content, using the game's files."   http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Creation_Kit

He wasn't talking about an actual level editor. He chose his words poorly, but it would've been apparent if you had paid attention to his post properly. He's talking about a game mechanic where you create a settlement (in-game) or something similar.

EDIT: Actually it's not apparent, so I'm sorry. I thought what he meant was obvious but actually it might not be for all people.

EDIT2: Wait, have I been misunderstanding this the whole time? If so, I do understand your amazement.



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ps3-sales! said:
vivster said:
That Fallout is bad and boring is nothing really new. That's why we PC gamers play actual RPGs like Gothic.

Just quicklearened everything about Gothic on the interwebz in 5 min. 

I might download G3. Tips?

Don't listen to the rants about G3. It was a bit buggy at launch and that's why everyone is crying. With the community patch however it's basically fixed and you won't find an open world RPG that's bigger or more diverse than Gothic 3.

However I would recommend playing the prequels first. They're quite old and you will notice it but in core they're absolutely great from story to the world to a very specific gameplay.

If you go in and don't expect polished graphics and gameplay it's basically the best WRPG ever made. If you don't want to spare the time since all 3 of them are quite time consuming you can start with 3. You might want to read yourself into the lore and characters a bit before you start.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Zkuq said:
pokoko said:

"The Creation Kit is Skyrim's modding kit. Included are the tools needed to create custom content, using the game's files."   http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Creation_Kit

He wasn't talking about an actual level editor. He chose his words poorly, but it would've been apparent if you had paid attention to his post properly. He's talking about a game mechanic where you create a settlement (in-game) or something similar.

EDIT: Actually it's not apparent, so I'm sorry. I thought what he meant was obvious but actually it might not be for all people.

EDIT2: Wait, have I been misunderstanding this the whole time? If so, I do understand your amazement.

I thought I explained it quite obviously lol. 

 

Edit: your edit 2 was posted after this reply haha. Edit-ception? 



Currently own:

 

  • Ps4

 

Currently playing: Witcher 3, Walking Dead S1/2, GTA5, Dying Light, Tomb Raider Remaster, MGS Ground Zeros

ps3-sales! said:
pokoko said:

"The Creation Kit is Skyrim's modding kit. Included are the tools needed to create custom content, using the game's files."   http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Creation_Kit

Figured that was the point you were trying to make. 

 

Mods are not the same as a level creation kit. 

 

Bethesda doesn't make mods for Skyrim at release. They didn't spend development time on them. 

 

They did however spend a lot of development on the level creation tools for fallout before release. 

 

Do you understand now?

Uh, then why the fuck did you complain about mods?  What are you even talking about, what is a "level creation kit" in a game WITHOUT LEVELS.  

"I got none of them from stupid mods that take me out of the game world."

Don't blame others if you can't even put together a coherent OP.



pokoko said:
ps3-sales! said:

Figured that was the point you were trying to make. 

 

Mods are not the same as a level creation kit. 

 

Bethesda doesn't make mods for Skyrim at release. They didn't spend development time on them. 

 

They did however spend a lot of development on the level creation tools for fallout before release. 

 

Do you understand now?

Uh, then why the fuck did you complain about mods?  What are you even talking about, what is a "level creation kit" in a game WITHOUT LEVELS.  

"I got none of them from stupid mods that take me out of the game world."

Don't blame others if you can't even put together a coherent OP.

Oh my no need for cursing. You know for my rant you do seem to be very angry. 

 

Let me break this down even further. You see my friend it's all about context. The "stupid mods" in that sentence refers to the level editor in fall out 4. It's still technically a mod in the game. Although a different type from the FAN MADE mods in Skyrim. 

 

Worded poorly? Possibly. But I've explained it so many times that I do just think you refuse to understand. 

 

Hope that cleared it up for ya. Cheer up m8 it'd a beautiful day outside. 



Currently own:

 

  • Ps4

 

Currently playing: Witcher 3, Walking Dead S1/2, GTA5, Dying Light, Tomb Raider Remaster, MGS Ground Zeros

ps3-sales! said:
pokoko said:

Uh, then why the fuck did you complain about mods?  What are you even talking about, what is a "level creation kit" in a game WITHOUT LEVELS.  

"I got none of them from stupid mods that take me out of the game world."

Don't blame others if you can't even put together a coherent OP.

Oh my no need for cursing. You know for my rant you do seem to be very angry. 

 

Let me break this down even further. You see my friend it's all about context. The "stupid mods" in that sentence refers to the level editor in fall out 4. It's still technically a mod in the game. Although a different type from the FAN MADE mods in Skyrim. 

 

Worded poorly? Possibly. But I've explained it so many times that I do just think you refuse to understand. 

 

Hope that cleared it up for ya. Cheer up m8 it'd a beautiful day outside. 

Yeah, that doesn't even make sense.  Don't make up crap on your own then act like people should understand it.  You could have at least put in a bit of effort.  Saying "creation tool" in quotes when Bethesda has always used "creation kit" to refer to their modding framework, using the word "mods" when you know everyone associates that with fan-made content in Bethesda games, saying "level creation", which doesn't even make any sense to begin with.

You simply made a really poor OP.

Beyond that, you're complaining about something you can mostly ignore.  You have to build up Sanctuary a tiny bit (unless you ignore that faction completely) and then you need to do a tiny bit of work on the Castle.  Of all the things to complain about, you pick something that you don't even have to do?

Also, I really don't care about you trying to define what should and should not be in an RPG.  Workshop mode in Fallout 4 has been very popular.  Personally, I love the option and have built some really nice settlements.  It's added an extreme amount of enjoyment to the game.

Finally, that you hold up Skyrim in counter-point makes no sense, either.  It barely had a story past "go do this next" and almost all the characters were flat and unimportant.  There are like two companions with an actual personality.

I very much disagree with you on pretty much every level.  I'd take Fallout 4 over Skyrim without a second thought.  In fact, I'm playing Skyrim right now and very much miss many of the improvements and hope the next Elder Scrolls game makes a similar jump in combat, character quality, and mechanics.