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Forums - Gaming - Dead Rising 4 is not Dead Rising (CrowbCat video)

The problem is that zombies aren't that threatening in the Dead Rising games. If you can take your time, pick your spots, take the long route, and save whenever you want, then the zombies aren't intimidating in the least.

Zombies become scary when you need to get to a certain point by a certain time, and the quickest route is blocked by a swarm of zombies, and your last save was 20 minutes ago.

Dead Rising was a survival horror/beat em up combo. This is just a beat em up.



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KLXVER said:

I love the Original Dead Rising, but the stuff you mentioned I wont miss much.

Survivors cannot be escorted - I wont miss escort missions in any video game.
Foods are like instant healthpacks -
Good. Now I can eat an orange to refill my health instead of waiting through 5 eating animations.
Maniacs replace psychopaths
- So they changed the name of the bad guys... Ok.
No Frank original voice actor
- The original voice actor was great, but Frank doesnt look like Frank anymore, so fair enough.
Zombies aren't more aggressive at night
- I dont even remember them being very agressive during the night in the first game. Their eyes just become red.
No time limit
- Great. Now we can actually do some exploring and have fun doing what we want.
No save locations
- Thank god. Cant tell you how annoying it was playing for hours, forgetting to save, die and then have to do hours of work again.

 

Alright, I'm going to give you the benefit of doubt for a second and assume you have more rights to get what you want than me (not saying it as an attack of any sort, mind you, just bear with me in this exercise); I'll just make a quick revision of what you just said.

Survivors cannot be escorted - Alright, you don't like this in any videogame. Fair enough.

Foods are like instant healthpacks. - The point of an eating animation is giving you a delay while healing yourself. It's so that there's challenge so that you can't just heal in the middle of combat. Hello casualization of the game, it's starting over here. Oh, by the way, no mixers/cooking either, because why would anyone want those, right?

Maniacs replace psychopaths. - The point that clearly demonstrated you didn't see the video, and don't know any info regarding to this. It's not a change of name. Psychopaths, meaning bosses with cutscenes when you fight them and when you kill them, are gone. Maniacs are introduced, and they're merely a random encounter NPC that has more health than your usual enemy, plus some special weapon that makes you damage. You fight these like any other normal enemy in the game.

No Frank original voice actor. - I mean, if you're not going to complain about how Frank looks nothing like Frank and he has freaking got young with the times, then I guess there's no point in complaining about his voice. Maybe... you should complain about both? I dunno, just saying.

Zombies at night. - They were, but don't worry, for the sake of casualization, they're gone. Now there's like one random stronger zombie from time to time and some random Maniac as well.

No time limit. - The golden point, I guess. No time limit means the original narrative structure of Dead Rising is gone, forever. The time limit was never there for the sake of screwing with the player (it orientated to replayability, which that's something you can take issue I suppose); so the philosophy design behind the whole franchise is also gone forever. What happens here, then? Well the result is getting something like Dead Rising 3, which not only failed to provide one good reason for why the timer was there in the first place (seriously, the timer there is the proof that Capcom Vancouver has no clue what they're doing), forget about doing the "be at the correct place at the correct moment", which propelled the plot in Dead Rising 1 and 2 and was the whole point of the game. Forget about any challenge of some sort. Hello massive casualization and broken narrative, you're what people demanded all along. Congratulations on ruining it for the rest of us who wanted the traditional structure intact.

No save locations. - Because gaming can't give the excitement of not dying before you save anymore. Let's fed up checkpoints literally every five minutes, YAY!



Wright said:
KLXVER said:

I love the Original Dead Rising, but the stuff you mentioned I wont miss much.

Survivors cannot be escorted - I wont miss escort missions in any video game.
Foods are like instant healthpacks -
Good. Now I can eat an orange to refill my health instead of waiting through 5 eating animations.
Maniacs replace psychopaths
- So they changed the name of the bad guys... Ok.
No Frank original voice actor
- The original voice actor was great, but Frank doesnt look like Frank anymore, so fair enough.
Zombies aren't more aggressive at night
- I dont even remember them being very agressive during the night in the first game. Their eyes just become red.
No time limit
- Great. Now we can actually do some exploring and have fun doing what we want.
No save locations
- Thank god. Cant tell you how annoying it was playing for hours, forgetting to save, die and then have to do hours of work again.

 

Alright, I'm going to give you the benefit of doubt for a second and assume you have more rights to get what you want than me (not saying it as an attack of any sort, mind you, just bear with me in this exercise); I'll just make a quick revision of what you just said.

Survivors cannot be escorted - Alright, you don't like this in any videogame. Fair enough.

Foods are like instant healthpacks. - The point of an eating animation is giving you a delay while healing yourself. It's so that there's challenge so that you can't just heal in the middle of combat. Hello casualization of the game, it's starting over here. Oh, by the way, no mixers/cooking either, because why would anyone want those, right?

Maniacs replace psychopaths. - The point that clearly demonstrated you didn't see the video, and don't know any info regarding to this. It's not a change of name. Psychopaths, meaning bosses with cutscenes when you fight them and when you kill them, are gone. Maniacs are introduced, and they're merely a random encounter NPC that has more health than your usual enemy, plus some special weapon that makes you damage. You fight these like any other normal enemy in the game.

No Frank original voice actor. - I mean, if you're not going to complain about how Frank looks nothing like Frank and he has freaking got young with the times, then I guess there's no point in complaining about his voice. Maybe... you should complain about both? I dunno, just saying.

Zombies at night. - They were, but don't worry, for the sake of casualization, they're gone. Now there's like one random stronger zombie from time to time and some random Maniac as well.

No time limit. - The golden point, I guess. No time limit means the original narrative structure of Dead Rising is gone, forever. The time limit was never there for the sake of screwing with the player (it orientated to replayability, which that's something you can take issue I suppose); so the philosophy design behind the whole franchise is also gone forever. What happens here, then? Well the result is getting something like Dead Rising 3, which not only failed to provide one good reason for why the timer was there in the first place (seriously, the timer there is the proof that Capcom Vancouver has no clue what they're doing), forget about doing the "be at the correct place at the correct moment", which propelled the plot in Dead Rising 1 and 2 and was the whole point of the game. Forget about any challenge of some sort. Hello massive casualization and broken narrative, you're what people demanded all along. Congratulations on ruining it for the rest of us who wanted the traditional structure intact.

No save locations. - Because gaming can't give the excitement of not dying before you save anymore. Let's fed up checkpoints literally every five minutes, YAY!

Maybe it needed some "casualization". You obviously dont fight the maniacs like any other enemy in the game. One we saw had a flamethrower and he had more life than a regular zombie. Sounds like the typical psychopath to me. Now you have to do some investigating to fight them. That sounds pretty cool.

Dark Souls does a great job with saving points, Dead Rising doesnt. Youre trying to escort people, worry about the time limit, trying to get to the next event etc... Sometimes you forget to go to the bathroom to save. It was just annoying. I dont mind scarce save points, but having to play hours of a game again just because you forgot to save is frustrating.

Im not sure the game will be casual just because they removed alot of stuff people had problems with. We dont know alot about the game. I did love making weapons and finding stuff in Dead Rising, but that time limit just made me constantly worry about missing something.



KLXVER said:

Maybe it needed some "casualization". You obviously dont fight the maniacs like any other enemy in the game. One we saw had a flamethrower and he had more life than a regular zombie. Sounds like the typical psychopath to me. Now you have to do some investigating to fight them. That sounds pretty cool.

Dark Souls does a great job with saving points, Dead Rising doesnt. Youre trying to escort people, worry about the time limit, trying to get to the next event etc... Sometimes you forget to go to the bathroom to save. It was just annoying. I dont mind scarce save points, but having to play hours of a game again just because you forgot to save is frustrating.

Im not sure the game will be casual just because they removed alot of stuff people had problems with. We dont know alot about the game. I did love making weapons and finding stuff in Dead Rising, but that time limit just made me constantly worry about missing something.

It never needed the casualization. Even if it did, I'm glad you dig worse designed enemies (and by worse I mean RNG kind of) - Maniacs - in favor of the classic boss (and by that I mean people designed with cutscene background check when you fight them) - psychopath -, despite myself already explaining the key differences between both; failed to acknowledge the time limit for what it was and just have it as an annoyance for you and ignore the rest of the points. I certainly won't.

I don't see the reasons to compare Dark Souls and Dead Rising, other than extrapolating my challenging comment. There's nothing comparable from both games, aside from the relatively freedom of movement when interacting with the world. Dark Souls' narrative isn't based upon a system that also includes a time limit. Like JWeinCom, it actually added not only for the calculation of whether to make it to the next story segment, but other factors added in it. You never have this in Dark Souls, and the fact that the game saves itself very often is not an anti-frustration measure: it's an anti-cheat feature, so that you don't erase progress when it doesn't benefit you. In both cases, the save system actually goes in the way of challenge, but there's no way to implement Dark Souls' system into Dead Rising. Or there wasn't, but now it's too late. Don't think for a second Capcom Vancouver got rid of the save points because they want to implement Dark Souls' saving philosophy, though.

I get it, really. You're one of those who wanted the elements that made Dead Rising out of Dead Rising, and you got your wish. Your very first post in this thread clearly stated your stance towards it, and nothing I'll say is going to change your opinion that destroying the core of what Dead Rising was is a better move than maintaining its original spirit.



Wright said:
KLXVER said:

Maybe it needed some "casualization". You obviously dont fight the maniacs like any other enemy in the game. One we saw had a flamethrower and he had more life than a regular zombie. Sounds like the typical psychopath to me. Now you have to do some investigating to fight them. That sounds pretty cool.

Dark Souls does a great job with saving points, Dead Rising doesnt. Youre trying to escort people, worry about the time limit, trying to get to the next event etc... Sometimes you forget to go to the bathroom to save. It was just annoying. I dont mind scarce save points, but having to play hours of a game again just because you forgot to save is frustrating.

Im not sure the game will be casual just because they removed alot of stuff people had problems with. We dont know alot about the game. I did love making weapons and finding stuff in Dead Rising, but that time limit just made me constantly worry about missing something.

It never needed the casualization. Even if it did, I'm glad you dig worse designed enemies (and by worse I mean RNG kind of) - Maniacs - in favor of the classic boss (and by that I mean people designed with cutscene background check when you fight them) - psychopath -, despite myself already explaining the key differences between both; failed to acknowledge the time limit for what it was and just have it as an annoyance for you and ignore the rest of the points. I certainly won't.

I don't see the reasons to compare Dark Souls and Dead Rising, other than extrapolating my challenging comment. There's nothing comparable from both games, aside from the relatively freedom of movement when interacting with the world. Dark Souls' narrative isn't based upon a system that also includes a time limit. Like JWeinCom, it actually added not only for the calculation of whether to make it to the next story segment, but other factors added in it. You never have this in Dark Souls, and the fact that the game saves itself very often is not an anti-frustration measure: it's an anti-cheat feature, so that you don't erase progress when it doesn't benefit you. In both cases, the save system actually goes in the way of challenge, but there's no way to implement Dark Souls' system into Dead Rising. Or there wasn't, but now it's too late. Don't think for a second Capcom Vancouver got rid of the save points because they want to implement Dark Souls' saving philosophy, though.

I get it, really. You're one of those who wanted the elements that made Dead Rising out of Dead Rising, and you got your wish. Your very first post in this thread clearly stated your stance towards it, and nothing I'll say is going to change your opinion that destroying the core of what Dead Rising was is a better move than maintaining its original spirit.

If Dead Rising 1 was such a perfect game, then just keep playing Dead Rising 1. I thought it was great, but I had several problems with it. Many people did. The sequel didnt fix them either. I havent played the third one yet, but I will.

The fact is that they changed much of the stuff people complained about. Lets give the developers a chance before we rip them a new one.



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KLXVER said:

If Dead Rising 1 was such a perfect game, then just keep playing Dead Rising 1. I thought it was great, but I had several problems with it. Many people did. The sequel didnt fix them either. I havent played the third one yet, but I will.

The fact is that they changed much of the stuff people complained about. Lets give the developers a chance before we rip them a new one.

Of course, because I have to keep stuck playing the same game while the sequels stray far and far more from what it originally was in favor of something that's almost entirely different to what that original game is. That makes absolute sense, I'm glad you're so understanding of my position here, really. Dead Rising is not perfect. Far from it, though there's also the question whether any game is perfect or not, but that's for a different place and time. Why do I have to get stuck with one (two, really, plust Off the Record) while I see the franchise I love going further into the path of destruction, though? Because you like it that way more? Oh, excuse me.

Dead Rising 3 changed a lot of stuff that people complained, but also that made some people very unhappy. It's not one-sided in your favour, here. Dead Rising 3 was distateful to many, myself included. Dead Rising 4 looks like it goes further down the path of Dead Rising 3, so why do we have to give the developers a chance? Did you even see the video I posted? It's clear that they have no intention of ever going back, that they totally missed the point of the core elements of Dead Rising and that they're doing their own thing. They're even locking down a DLC that adds the timer back in some crappy paid expansion, for fuck sake.

The fact is that they choose to change things; things that people also liked. Not you, definitively. But we can give the developers a chance because this new..."Dead Rising" is what you, just like all those people that complained, wanted. God forbid we people that didn't want this route complain about it!



Frank is back!



Wright said:
KLXVER said:

If Dead Rising 1 was such a perfect game, then just keep playing Dead Rising 1. I thought it was great, but I had several problems with it. Many people did. The sequel didnt fix them either. I havent played the third one yet, but I will.

The fact is that they changed much of the stuff people complained about. Lets give the developers a chance before we rip them a new one.

Of course, because I have to keep stuck playing the same game while the sequels stray far and far more from what it originally was in favor of something that's almost entirely different to what that original game is. That makes absolute sense, I'm glad you're so understanding of my position here, really. Dead Rising is not perfect. Far from it, though there's also the question whether any game is perfect or not, but that's for a different place and time. Why do I have to get stuck with one (two, really, plust Off the Record) while I see the franchise I love going further into the path of destruction, though? Because you like it that way more? Oh, excuse me.

Dead Rising 3 changed a lot of stuff that people complained, but also that made some people very unhappy. It's not one-sided in your favour, here. Dead Rising 3 was distateful to many, myself included. Dead Rising 4 looks like it goes further down the path of Dead Rising 3, so why do we have to give the developers a chance? Did you even see the video I posted? It's clear that they have no intention of ever going back, that they totally missed the point of the core elements of Dead Rising and that they're doing their own thing. They're even locking down a DLC that adds the timer back in some crappy paid expansion, for fuck sake.

The fact is that they choose to change things; things that people also liked. Not you, definitively. But we can give the developers a chance because this new..."Dead Rising" is what you, just like all those people that complained, wanted. God forbid we people that didn't want this route complain about it!

I have seen the video and every time the developers say something, the guy who made the video jump to conclusions.

They say they will focus more on story, ways to kill zombies, exploration, investigations and that they are taking cues mostly from the first Dead Rising.

The guy who made the video obviously has an agenda here. Showing what a few of the developers have been working on before this game in order to make them seem unqualified for it. Putting in video of the worst example of something the developer says is great about the game. 

They say they have removed stuff from the game, but they also say they have added alot of new stuff. So I will give them a chance to prove that they can make a game as good as the first one. If its bad, then Ill join the hate train.

 

 



KLXVER said:

I have seen the video and every time the developers say something, the guy who made the video jump to conclusions.

They say they will focus more on story, ways to kill zombies, exploration, investigations and that they are taking cues mostly from the first Dead Rising.

The guy who made the video obviously has an agenda here. Showing what a few of the developers have been working on before this game in order to make them seem unqualified for it. Putting in video of the worst example of something the developer says is great about the game. 

They say they have removed stuff from the game, but they also say they have added alot of new stuff. So I will give them a chance to prove that they can make a game as good as the first one. If its bad, then Ill join the hate train.

Everything that this developer is doing is propelled by the same narrative they applied to Dead Rising 3. You can't "focus" more on the story than how Dead Rising already did, which was making you follow the story set-pieces through a day/night cycle under the timed structure. You can make cutscenes larger, which is what they did with Dead Rising 3, but that isn't "focusing" on the story. That's missing the point by a large marging. Exploration is there, but exploration has always been in all Dead Rising games, so it's not like there's suddenly "more focus" to it than it ever was on the others, is it?. "Investigations"? What exactly do you "investigate", other than going from A to B whenever you feel like? That's as much of an investigation than what GTA or Saint Row does, really. Unless you mean taking photos because the objective says you must do it. I guess that's investigation alright.

What "cues" are those? Please tell me. What's here that resembles in any way the original Dead Rising? Frank's voice being entirely different and so his entire body? The Willammette Park being entirely changed and using its name for nostalgia purposes? The lack of a narrative based on a time-structure? There's none here, but if you find these cues, please tell me which ones are those. In the meanwhile, I'll just go with the theory that they're using standard PR dev.

The guy obviously has an agenda. He's showing how Dead Rising 4 isn't Dead Rising, and he's damn good at backing it up. Now, don't get me confused, Dead Rising 4 might be a good game. Great, even. But as a "Dead Rising" game it is atrocious, and that's what the video is all about. It's an insult for the franchise, and the fact that they're using its name to create something that isn't Dead Rising is the idea that's conveyed through the video. The developer is unqualified of working anymore with this franchise without the direction of someone who understood what it is. Inafune already said they did something with Dead Rising 3 that he wouldn't have. Say all you want about Inafune and his terrible direction these past years, he made Dead Rising 1 and 2 and he certainly understood what it was all about it. Blue Castle/Capcom Vancouver has long missed the point entirely.

They make clear they removed the core of Dead Rising in favour for what they "consider" Dead Rising is, which isn't. That much is obvious. It's no longer Dead Rising. As for you joining the "hate" train, because obviously valid criticism (or I haven't seen you doing much in the way of disproving its legitimatecy) must be considered hate, is something we both know you won't do, because no one who goes into this particular thread like this:

KLXVER said:
Seems more like Capcom listened to people and removed the shitty parts of Dead Rising.

Clearly shows any sign of wanting the core of Dead Rising back. The further the developer gets from it, the more you'll like it, since as I already said, you stated clearly your stance toward the franchise, the video and my replies.



Wright said:
KLXVER said:

I have seen the video and every time the developers say something, the guy who made the video jump to conclusions.

They say they will focus more on story, ways to kill zombies, exploration, investigations and that they are taking cues mostly from the first Dead Rising.

The guy who made the video obviously has an agenda here. Showing what a few of the developers have been working on before this game in order to make them seem unqualified for it. Putting in video of the worst example of something the developer says is great about the game. 

They say they have removed stuff from the game, but they also say they have added alot of new stuff. So I will give them a chance to prove that they can make a game as good as the first one. If its bad, then Ill join the hate train.

Everything that this developer is doing is propelled by the same narrative they applied to Dead Rising 3. You can't "focus" more on the story than how Dead Rising already did, which was making you follow the story set-pieces through a day/night cycle under the timed structure. You can make cutscenes larger, which is what they did with Dead Rising 3, but that isn't "focusing" on the story. That's missing the point by a large marging. Exploration is there, but exploration has always been in all Dead Rising games, so it's not like there's suddenly "more focus" to it than it ever was on the others, is it?. "Investigations"? What exactly do you "investigate", other than going from A to B whenever you feel like? That's as much of an investigation than what GTA or Saint Row does, really. Unless you mean taking photos because the objective says you must do it. I guess that's investigation alright.

What "cues" are those? Please tell me. What's here that resembles in any way the original Dead Rising? Frank's voice being entirely different and so his entire body? The Willammette Park being entirely changed and using its name for nostalgia purposes? The lack of a narrative based on a time-structure? There's none here, but if you find these cues, please tell me which ones are those. In the meanwhile, I'll just go with the theory that they're using standard PR dev.

The guy obviously has an agenda. He's showing how Dead Rising 4 isn't Dead Rising, and he's damn good at backing it up. Now, don't get me confused, Dead Rising 4 might be a good game. Great, even. But as a "Dead Rising" game it is atrocious, and that's what the video is all about. It's an insult for the franchise, and the fact that they're using its name to create something that isn't Dead Rising is the idea that's conveyed through the video. The developer is unqualified of working anymore with this franchise without the direction of someone who understood what it is. Inafune already said they did something with Dead Rising 3 that he wouldn't have. Say all you want about Inafune and his terrible direction these past years, he made Dead Rising 1 and 2 and he certainly understood what it was all about it. Blue Castle/Capcom Vancouver has long missed the point entirely.

They make clear they removed the core of Dead Rising in favour for what they "consider" Dead Rising is, which isn't. That much is obvious. It's no longer Dead Rising. As for you joining the "hate" train, because obviously valid criticism (or I haven't seen you doing much in the way of disproving its legitimatecy) must be considered hate, is something we both know you won't do, because no one who goes into this particular thread like this:

KLXVER said:
Seems more like Capcom listened to people and removed the shitty parts of Dead Rising.

Clearly shows any sign of wanting the core of Dead Rising back. The further the developer gets from it, the more you'll like it, since as I already said, you stated clearly your stance toward the franchise, the video and my replies.

 

The guy is asked: "Will you still be escorting survivors" and he answers "Yes, but its better. Now you get loot from the survivors after you rescue them instead of just a thank you" Then you see a video where a survivor fights alongside you.

The guy who made the video writes "Cannot escort survivors"

 

What?