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Forums - Politics - Unfriending due to Political Differences

 

Would you unfriend someone due to political differences?

Yes 53 21.54%
 
No 152 61.79%
 
Unsure 41 16.67%
 
Total:246
StarDoor said:

Are you saying that you are no more genetically related to your parents than to someone on the other side of the planet? Your argument is the equivalent of saying that your family doesn't exist. Race is just family writ large based on genetic similarity. Distinct population groups do exist among humans; we've experienced 50 to 100 thousand years of evolution in separate environments. It's insane to argue that evolution shaped skin pigmentation, bone density, skull structure, blood type, disease immunity, bacterial microbiomes, and much more, but left cognitive traits untouched. The only reason that people like you object to this reality is because you think that it somehow justifies the subjugation of other groups of people, a belief that is even more "racist" than anything you assign to the people you disagree with.

If such cognitive differences exist, they are miniscule compared to, and completely obscured by, the natural range of intelligences and the differences caused by upbringing. 



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StarDoor said:
WolfpackN64 said:

Wow, this post, is so wrong on all the levels.

To start, there can be no data of intellectual hierarchy of races since there is only one human race. There are cultural and societal difference along with differences in looks, but there is only one race.

You make it sound like equality is something inherent to culture. It's not, equality is a basic human trait and can be fought for anywhere.

Economy is the base of human interactions, so yes, an economic concept can cause racism.

And your last post is just stupid.

Are you saying that you are no more genetically related to your parents than to someone on the other side of the planet? Your argument is the equivalent of saying that your family doesn't exist. Race is just family writ large based on genetic similarity. Distinct population groups do exist among humans; we've experienced 50 to 100 thousand years of evolution in separate environments. It's insane to argue that evolution shaped skin pigmentation, bone density, skull structure, blood type, disease immunity, bacterial microbiomes, and much more, but left cognitive traits untouched. The only reason that people like you object to this reality is because you think that it somehow justifies the subjugation of other groups of people, a belief that is even more "racist" than anything you assign to the people you disagree with.

This is no reality. It's been scientifically stated there is only ONE human race. What you are stating is largely cultural and local difference, but that does not constitute a race.

And it does not justify the subjegation of other people. If anything, other people were named a race in the past to legitimize their colonization by the western powers.



Final-Fan said:
StarDoor said:

Are you saying that you are no more genetically related to your parents than to someone on the other side of the planet? Your argument is the equivalent of saying that your family doesn't exist. Race is just family writ large based on genetic similarity. Distinct population groups do exist among humans; we've experienced 50 to 100 thousand years of evolution in separate environments. It's insane to argue that evolution shaped skin pigmentation, bone density, skull structure, blood type, disease immunity, bacterial microbiomes, and much more, but left cognitive traits untouched. The only reason that people like you object to this reality is because you think that it somehow justifies the subjugation of other groups of people, a belief that is even more "racist" than anything you assign to the people you disagree with.

If such cognitive differences exist, they are miniscule compared to, and completely obscured by, the natural range of intelligences and the differences caused by upbringing. 

The natural range of intelligences is a valid point, in the sense that a person of any race can be intelligent. It's just that there are differences in the group averages, so we can't expect identical levels of achievement across all races.

As for the differences caused by upbringing, it's far less significant than you think. From Wikipedia: "Various studies have found the heritability of IQ to be between 0.7 and 0.8 in adults and 0.45 in childhood in the United States."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ#Estimates

Furthermore, there exists a racial gap in SAT scores (highly correlated with g) regardless of family income in the United States:

From the College Board's data, we can see that the poorest whites (978) have scores almost identical to the wealthiest blacks (981), something that cannot be explained by environmental theories.



People want to have a purpose, fighting against "the modern day Hitler" and defeating his Nazi followers gives them that sense of purpose and righteousness. Even when I was Anti-Trump I thought the comparisons of trump to Hitler was just absurd propaganda (maximum cringe). People should really stop for a second, take a step back and realize what they are willing to end a friendship over.

I know many facebook friends are not real life friends (just someone you seen before lol) but many are in my case. To potentially hurt a real friendship over this shit is sad.



WolfpackN64 said:
StarDoor said:

Are you saying that you are no more genetically related to your parents than to someone on the other side of the planet? Your argument is the equivalent of saying that your family doesn't exist. Race is just family writ large based on genetic similarity. Distinct population groups do exist among humans; we've experienced 50 to 100 thousand years of evolution in separate environments. It's insane to argue that evolution shaped skin pigmentation, bone density, skull structure, blood type, disease immunity, bacterial microbiomes, and much more, but left cognitive traits untouched. The only reason that people like you object to this reality is because you think that it somehow justifies the subjugation of other groups of people, a belief that is even more "racist" than anything you assign to the people you disagree with.

This is no reality. It's been scientifically stated there is only ONE human race. What you are stating is largely cultural and local difference, but that does not constitute a race.

And it does not justify the subjegation of other people. If anything, other people were named a race in the past to legitimize their colonization by the western powers.

It's not a cultural difference, it's a biological difference. Although culture tends to be a function of the population's biology anyways.

OK, so don't call them races. That doesn't refute the fact that there are genetically distinct population groups within humanity.

Also, Western powers are quite late to the party when it comes to racism/subjugation/colonization. The Persians hated the Greeks, the Egyptians hated the Jews, the Japanese hated the Chinese... interracial/interethnic conflict pervades human history. Whites don't have a monopoly on that sort of thing. If anything, whites were the ones who developed an ideology (liberalism) that denies the very existence of different groups of humanity, which makes perfect sense when you consider that Europeans (especially northern and western ones) are among the least ethnocentric population groups. Unfortunately, this tendency makes it easy for more ethnocentric peoples to take advantage of them.



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StarDoor said:
WolfpackN64 said:

This is no reality. It's been scientifically stated there is only ONE human race. What you are stating is largely cultural and local difference, but that does not constitute a race.

And it does not justify the subjegation of other people. If anything, other people were named a race in the past to legitimize their colonization by the western powers.

It's not a cultural difference, it's a biological difference. Although culture tends to be a function of the population's biology anyways.

OK, so don't call them races. That doesn't refute the fact that there are genetically distinct population groups within humanity.

Also, Western powers are quite late to the party when it comes to racism/subjugation/colonization. The Persians hated the Greeks, the Egyptians hated the Jews, the Japanese hated the Chinese... interracial/interethnic conflict pervades human history. Whites don't have a monopoly on that sort of thing. If anything, whites were the ones who developed an ideology (liberalism) that denies the very existence of different groups of humanity, which makes perfect sense when you consider that Europeans (especially northern and western ones) are among the least ethnocentric population groups. Unfortunately, this tendency makes it easy for more ethnocentric peoples to take advantage of them.

Conquering and subjegation aren't anything new, but subjegation on the scale of modern day imperialism was only possible under capitalism, the rise of liberalism has replaced direct imperialism with economic imperialism in which elites dominate other classes and peoples based on their economic strength.



StarDoor said:  Are you saying that you are no more genetically related to your parents than to someone on the other side of the planet? Your argument is the equivalent of saying that your family doesn't exist. Race is just family writ large based on genetic similarity. Distinct population groups do exist among humans; we've experienced 50 to 100 thousand years of evolution in separate environments. It's insane to argue that evolution shaped skin pigmentation, bone density, skull structure, blood type, disease immunity, bacterial microbiomes, and much more, but left cognitive traits untouched. The only reason that people like you object to this reality is because you think that it somehow justifies the subjugation of other groups of people, a belief that is even more "racist" than anything you assign to the people you disagree with.

Quoted for truth, the whole thing, but the bolded part is the fundamental kernel to all of it.

This goes beyond politics regardless of who you want to vote for. We are all quite different and I've always hated how pure "equality" politics of the left would try to erase such logic. Of course we can all be equal in our general passions and commitments, but that kind of equality of "ability" is more about the sum total of our strengths and weaknesses. In no way are we equal in such a one-dimensional way as some liberals like to illustrate, not in the face of science.



Final-Fan said:
SuaveSocialist said:

"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.” --Thomas Paine

If a friend is unresponsive to political reality (ex http://quantum-displacement.tumblr.com/post/146015554444/anti-trump-masterpost ), a better course of action to making the country move in the right direction is to use your energy where it might accomplish something--even if that means leaving said friend to his delusions.  You can't help those who are unwilling to be helped and are unwilling to help themselves.

More productive alternatives would be to get involved with Wolf PAC http://www.wolf-pac.com/, or involved with grassroots movements to elect replacements for all the insane/obstructionist Republicans in office, or making your case to those who may actually be receptive.  Wasting your time on the Reich-Wing (count the Nazi tattoos!  https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-W0NDO_5p3fk/VunSdRVZE_I/AAAAAAAA3Js/ZFTewqASh50AzXZph1z2Zn_DIbfK2vZRA/s1600/ra658azs1s1o1q4ozqhg.png)   is certainly less efficient, less effective, and less rewarding if your endgame is to improve your country. 

That is fine as far as it goes, but your argument assumes that the Trump supporter has a complete and well-informed position.  I think more of his supporters are ignorant and/or misinformed, and if they are not wilfully ignorant then you may well be able to educate them and in doing so make them less supportive of Trump and his kind. 

No, it doesn't.  The first paragraph and second paragraphs account for efforts to inform/educate that have proven futile.  If an anchor cannot be raised, it is better to cut it loose than hold back the ship.



StarDoor said:
Final-Fan said:

If such cognitive differences exist, they are miniscule compared to, and completely obscured by, the natural range of intelligences and the differences caused by upbringing. 

The natural range of intelligences is a valid point, in the sense that a person of any race can be intelligent. It's just that there are differences in the group averages, so we can't expect identical levels of achievement across all races.

As for the differences caused by upbringing, it's far less significant than you think. From Wikipedia: "Various studies have found the heritability of IQ to be between 0.7 and 0.8 in adults and 0.45 in childhood in the United States."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ#Estimates

Furthermore, there exists a racial gap in SAT scores (highly correlated with g) regardless of family income in the United States:

From the College Board's data, we can see that the poorest whites (978) have scores almost identical to the wealthiest blacks (981), something that cannot be explained by environmental theories.

That's a good point about inherited IQ, despite that I hear the tests are often pretty culturally biased. 

As for the other part:  and what schools did all those kids go to? 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Ka-pi96 said:

You realise that Persians, Greeks, Egyptians and Jews are all technically whites (or more specifically caucasians because the Japanese/Chinese also have white skin so white isn`t really an accurate description of race...), right?

Besides, not a single one of those (including Japanese hating Chinese, which for the record I`m not sure was ever even a thing) is racism. They`re all hating each other based on cultural identity/nationalism rather than due to race.

Oh but other than the examples, I do mostly agree with you.

That's just an issue of semantics. Most people, when referring to the "white race," mean people of European descent. It's why I chose to say "white" in the first place, since "Caucasian," as you said, can refer to Middle Easterners and North Africans as well.

And again, semantics. Nations are just large groups of people with a common genetic heritage. It's still racism, even if the groups I mentioned are more similar to each other than, say, Africans and East Asians. (Also, the Japanese were very ethnocentric before they were defeated in WWII. They were brutal toward China: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre)

WolfpackN64 said:

Conquering and subjegation aren't anything new, but subjegation on the scale of modern day imperialism was only possible under capitalism, the rise of liberalism has replaced direct imperialism with economic imperialism in which elites dominate other classes and peoples based on their economic strength.

Large-scale imperialism may have only been possible under capitalism, but that's only by virtue of capitalism spurring technological advancement and creating such a large amount of material wealth. And it's not like Western powers were uniquely horrible to their colonies, especially considering how Western medicine and agriculture allowed the third world to explode in population under their watch.

Final-Fan said:

That's a good point about inherited IQ, despite that I hear the tests are often pretty culturally biased. 

As for the other part:  and what schools did all those kids go to? 

Reports of cultural bias are greatly exaggerated. If standardized tests are biased, how can East Asians perform better than Europeans on them?

Schools are as good as the students who attend them. If you want a full picture, I recommend Bad Students, Not Bad Schools: https://www.amazon.com/Bad-Students-Not-Schools/dp/141281345X

Moreover, better schools tend to be in wealthier areas, so that still doesn't explain why rich black kids do so poorly.