About worship, about being thankful...
I see this especially in America, its probably more culture than anything, and it might have lost much of its meaning. Regardless, it seems very common to dismiss hard work and intense effort with "blessed by God", thanking God for achieving things in life when it was your own hard labour that got you there - and it infuriates me. "Look at Usain Bolt, God sure gave him great legs!" "Look at that woman's art, she must've been blessed by God!" "Listen to Mozart, God made him incredibly talented!" No! NO!! These people struggled and worked their asses off. No one is born a master. Thank God for your food? You attained that food, you prepared it. Thank God for your house, your wealth, your kids? You worked for those things! "I couldn't have done it without God..." But God did absolutely nothing! YOU'RE ACTUALLY AMAZING! Love yourself, be proud of your achievements, be your own God! Being born with "talent" doesn't mean anything unless you act on it. Take hold of your life and make it awesome.

Why should I be thankful (to God) for my existance? Why should I ever thank God for anything in this world? Humans built my city, humans made our roads, humans farm our food, humans created the internet which in turn allows me to type this reply here. God didn't do shit.

Blargh.

On with the actual question. I somehow have the proof.
I will never be thankful to God, the world we live in is full is shit. The human race is not a proud creation. Or rather, I believe we have yet to reach our full potential and allowing ourselves to be consumed by greed and hatred and even at times slaughtering eachother in the streets, does not make us anything to be proud over.

Is it all our own fault? Are humans just a failed creation? Well then, even less of a reason to be thankful. :/ Nature is amazing though and I could see myself being kinda thankful for it, I guess, but I'm not. Life is an amazing thing. Just think about how a tiny seed can grow right through concrete and become a massive tree, becoming a beacon of life for birds and critters, insects and even other plants. Binding the earth with its roots, protecting the land from floods. Nothing works harder than nature though, God didn't do anything there either. Even if the claim is simply that he created life in the first place, life would turn to dust if it didn't put in any work. I'm thankful for that, the effort, the struggle. I'm impressed and humbled by it. It is its own thing, not a gift to me or to humanity. I'm not thankful for it.

Worship.. Does a lack of worship mean I'm going straight to hell? I think this very much depends on my family and friends. If I'm surrounded by believers, then worship might come naturally. If I'm surrounded by skeptical minds, then I'd probably reject God, and then regret it when I go to hell. At least I'd be honest, I guess.

Does worship "count" when my feelings aren't pure? Would I go to hell regardless? There are so many rules to this whole thing, its really difficult to play when you don't know how the game works.

Knowing that you "have" to worship him, warps your thoughts. Its no longer a choice, it becomes an obligation. I guess it was like that already, but still. If I don't come to the conclusion on my own.. Is it possible that I'm simply screwed forever? Its not faith anymore. Its just cold facts. A lack of faith is a ticket to hell, right?



I'd love to hear answers from people who don't default to some version of the God of the bible (as most people have done, me included) though. What about the Indian gods, aren't there like several thousands of them? Might not change much in the end though. Hm.

I'd like to throw an extreme over simplification out there. :D

It's unlikely that I would worship him.  I could perhaps respect him, but that depends on god himself.  Hell, I could even accept that he's a better person/being/entity than myself, but I think there's more to it than that.

If we throw out that god himself is a force of nature ( a fundamental force or something that we can't relate to as humans ), then we can only judge him on his choices as something relatable to humans.  While no one's perfect, and everyone diserves to judged with an open and forgiving mind/heart, no one is above reproach.

Lets say you created a sentient entity, within the confines of your own laws ( pertaining to nature ), and those enitities were incable of  being better than you as the creater or even break the confines of the laws you've laid down for them.  You're telling me that your wanting to recieve thanks and worship is nothing more than self serving? Even if you he didn't do it for the thanks, what's the motivation.  We can't have reason, without existance.

I enjoy life ( most of the time :) ), and can be thankful of my being created, but I don't think that I in turn owe him anything.

If god exists, I just hope he's a nice guy that I can get along with. Drink a brewski, make some jokes, share some memories with. /shrug

God's existance is irrelevant. He either exists, and we live an die by his rules or he doesn't and then there's some other guiding force. Nature or spirtual.

Sorry, I hope that wasn't confusing.

You should not jump into conclusions and call it my God, maybe i just like theology and don't like to read such bad misconception of what is written in the Bible. All i can say after all you said is that you really should read the Bible your self, what is tales and what is a report of what happened at some point will be clear to you, even if you don't believe in the reports, the difference between them is quite clear. I don't feel the need to change your mind, you can stay firm with your opinion and i respect that but I've done what i think was right and warn you, that in my opinion, you have a misconception of things. You clearly thing that i have it upside down and not you, i could only say to refute that is "all my opinions were based on what I've read my self in the bible and on that alone, no priest, pastor, father, etc told me anything", to clear things even more, i don't pray, or attend any religious congregation of any kind. 

The really important thing people should learn from the bible is that Jesus ask us to love each other, and i don't know how is that a bad thing... I learned many things by reading the bible, and that is what i consider the major teach we should learn,  and don't tell me people don't need the bible to learn that because that is the hardest lesson humans need to learn. After more than 2000 years of listening to that lesson and still isn't our way of living. Btw people that don't believe that Jesus is the son of God and that he is a tale or a lie should not use 2016 as the number of our current solar year.

If you could verify gods existence you would understand why.

1) "maybe" you say? What? You don't even know what you believe in or not? That's strange talk.

2) You jump into the conclusion that I haven't read the bible, what are you talking about?

3) You said in your first post that god was real and that there is no way for a human to comprehend how he works. I am not jumping into conclusions, but you did with me. I don't hold it against you though, believing a god is real without a way to submit him to the scientific method is jumping into conclusions so yeah, I am not surprised you did that with me.

4) Yeah, no part of the bible says: this is a teaching, this is real. We can discuss the whole bible and clash in what is claimed to be real or not and that is the same reason why the bible is no proof of anything. You don't base facts in opinions, you base facts following the scientific method and publish the results for everyone to analyze them and refute them or accept them.

5) Yeah, the bible has some nice stories that have a nice message. Even Finding Nemo has some nice stories, that doesn't make the Disney movie a true story.

The Bible has some even nicer stories, as the story of the "righteous man" according to the bible who offered his daughters up for rape:

6) "and don't tell me people don't need the bible to learn that because that is the hardest lesson humans need to learn."

Prove me that people need the bible to love and respect one another. You are the one who makes this claim so prove it.

7) "After more than 2000 years of listening to that lesson and still isn't our way of living."

Only reason we are hearing about that Magical Jesus is because those who have conquered the most land were riding on the remnants of the great Roman Empire and before the Empire collapsed they made Christianity official. If the later had not happened, you'd be praising Zeus right now instead.

8) Btw people that don't believe that Jesus is the son of God and that he is a tale or a lie should not use 2016 as the number of our current solar year.

Wow, this is a whole new breed of oppression by Christians right here, congratulations. First this made up number of the Magical Jesus birth that people behind it can't even make up their mind about (like they can't concerning the age of our world and claim the world is merely some thousands years old), was forced into everyone. Like always the religion with power shoves down their teachings down everyone's throat, and yet it is claimed that we have a separation of church and state.

I would gladly stop using that made up number to refer to the present year and any date, I want to actually! But what option does anyone has to use a different dating system when everyone uses another? I shouldn't even explain this to you, I can't believe you even went there with this dense comment, or maybe I should've.

And then why do I lash out when Christians shove down their religion down everyone's thoat? Here's another example.

Except... that isnt evidence. ^^

If its not demonstrable, it can't be evidence.

I actually am not that interested in this life. I don't want to live long. That aside, suicide is forbidden and you have to seek treatment for all and every problem at least according to my religion. There is a difference between being superior to things and creating them. It's like you killing people in GTA because technically they are not what you call living beings.  But if some way, the characters in game have feelings, you'd still kill them regardless. It's like a game creator who does whatever he wants to his creations in game. That's the closest example to give, not because of superiority, but because to insignificance. Even if characters in game have feelings, the game creator will do whatever the hell he wants with them because he created them and in the end can create more. If God exists, then humans and all His creations are insignificant and if that God is immortal and everlasting, then he probably has created countless universes with countless creations and has no boundary in time as time is just a perception, so He can see everything happening at the same time. Why then would He care about nobodies like humans. Perhaps He is just messing with us and created us for fun or perhaps He just really wants us to follow Him or perhaps He created us, but just observes us and doesn't care what happens. In the end that dog is signifacnt to you, since He is a part of your world, galaxy and universe, while you and everyone else and the universe or even the multiverse, if it exists is insignificant to God since its inconsequential to Him. He can start from scratch create another universe and do whatever we can't even comprehend.

Also going back to the surviving part, many people fought for their country or religion, not the terrorists, and died on the battlefield since they believe it'll grant them heaven. We in our religion don't automatically have all our sins forgiven like the Christians so we are responsible for each and every deed we do. Killing ourselves is like leaving a blank test so you fail regardless. Life is a test for us so we have to strive to be better humans every day and make the difficult, but right calls, or at least try to, that's why we don't just do whatever we want like alcohol, drugs, random sex, etc. Those who do those things are just not good practitioners and as you said, care too much about this world. We are taught to ponder over death as much as we can to remind ourselves of the limits of this world and this life is our only chance to  pass this test. If we stop thinking about death, then we'll get too involved in this world and forget our responsibilties. But in the end only death can confirm whether I am right, or you are right or some other people and in the end I can't change your mind and you can't change mine, so live your life and remember death, as you might not believe in the afterlife but you do believe in being a good human being.

P.S: Wy the hell do people want more of this stupid life? If you can tell me then reply. And I am not suicidal in any way or form, just baffled by the masses.

I don't speak for everyone, but I think most people would agree with some if not all of the following:  Intellectually, they feel that the good parts outweigh the bad parts.  Even if there is more bad than good in their life, they may still feel that experiencing the good is worth the pain.  And aside from the intellectual reasons, we as human beings have an ingrained aversion to death.  Our instinct is very strongly telling us to not die.  (If you know anything about evolution, you can see how this would be an evolutionary advantage.)  Unfortunately, this can sometimes cause irrational and even counterproductive reactions, but it's still a strong motivation. 

Dude that is some sad / insane way of thinking. I hope you get some form of help to deal with those feelings. It's another fine example of what religion does to people, while some still pretend religion to be harmless.

Yeah let's just agree to disagree and i'll consider myself lucky I find plenty of enjoyment all over. 

I hear most people say that time flies fast. But for me, its so damn slow that days feel like weeks even if I am busy or completely free. I am 19 years old and I feel like I have lived enough and looking at the state and mentality of people just makes me feel angry and the ignorance makes me feel annoyed and I am left to wonder why the hell would people want to live to 70 let alone trying to become immortal through science. If at any time I start to think like there is no God or everything is predetermined, I'll just go batshit crazy cause everything will be pointless. If it's just predetermined by God then its just a bad joke and everything I do is predetermined anyway and if there is no God then why even live. It's not like this world is heaven or anything.