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Forums - Nintendo - The Failure Of The GameCube Really Is Where It All Went Wrong

Azzanation said:
vivster said:

Yes, the point was that if Nintendo failed back then, we might have Nintendo doing 3rd party now.

Damn that Wii and DS to hell.

Not exactly the future id prefer. Nintendo design there hardware around there games. If Nintendo had to rely on Sony and MS than id expect a drop in Nintendo quality. There games are great because there hardware inspires amazing games (not always the case, cough Star Fox Zero cough) 

Imagin Mario releasing every year on Xbox and PS, instead of unique game elements all we will get is slightly better visuals. If i want visuals id game on PC. Nintendo has been the king of gameplay since the 80s and id rather it stay that way. 

Why does everyone think that if Nintendo develops for any other platform that their whole development process will change and they will suddenly produce lesser games? What is that based on? Are Nintendo developers so fragile and scared that they can't develop on hardware that does not have a Nintendo logo on it?

Was there a single good game on the Wii U that would've been worse without the Gamepad? Hint: No there wasn't. Every single critically acclaimed Nintendo game would've just been as well received if it was on any other console. The "games build around hardware" bullshit is just so that people keep buying the console without questioning their shitty track records when it comes to current technology. People like you make it very easy for them to keep raking in millions by just producing cheap hardware while everyone else is killing themselves to deliver cutting edge hardware for a low price.



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vivster said:
Azzanation said:

Not exactly the future id prefer. Nintendo design there hardware around there games. If Nintendo had to rely on Sony and MS than id expect a drop in Nintendo quality. There games are great because there hardware inspires amazing games (not always the case, cough Star Fox Zero cough) 

Imagin Mario releasing every year on Xbox and PS, instead of unique game elements all we will get is slightly better visuals. If i want visuals id game on PC. Nintendo has been the king of gameplay since the 80s and id rather it stay that way. 

Why does everyone think that if Nintendo develops for any other platform that their whole development process will change and they will suddenly produce lesser games? What is that based on? Are Nintendo developers so fragile and scared that they can't develop on hardware that does not have a Nintendo logo on it?

Was there a single good game on the Wii U that would've been worse without the Gamepad? Hint: No there wasn't. Every single critically acclaimed Nintendo game would've just been as well received if it was on any other console. The "games build around hardware" bullshit is just so that people keep buying the console without questioning their shitty track records when it comes to current technology. People like you make it very easy for them to keep raking in millions by just producing cheap hardware while everyone else is killing themselves to deliver cutting edge hardware for a low price.

But the obvious thing here is that Nintendo have release to very high critical acclaim even without being on the best console specs available. 

 

I mean, do you honestly believe other game developers would just close down shop if all consoles released were only just as powerful as Wii U? Hint: they wouldn't. If so then I'd say they are failures as game companies if flash is all they have to offer, and sone amazing 3rd party 3ds games prove my point. Power isn't the end all be all, It's just an excuse to allow companies to release hardware twice a gen and pressure the "power is king" minded to fork over the cash. 



bigtakilla said:
vivster said:

Why does everyone think that if Nintendo develops for any other platform that their whole development process will change and they will suddenly produce lesser games? What is that based on? Are Nintendo developers so fragile and scared that they can't develop on hardware that does not have a Nintendo logo on it?

Was there a single good game on the Wii U that would've been worse without the Gamepad? Hint: No there wasn't. Every single critically acclaimed Nintendo game would've just been as well received if it was on any other console. The "games build around hardware" bullshit is just so that people keep buying the console without questioning their shitty track records when it comes to current technology. People like you make it very easy for them to keep raking in millions by just producing cheap hardware while everyone else is killing themselves to deliver cutting edge hardware for a low price.

But the obvious thing here is that Nintendo have release to very high critical acclaim even without being on the best console specs available. 

 

I mean, do you honestly believe other game developers would just close down shop if all consoles released were only just as powerful as Wii U? Hint: they wouldn't. If so then I'd say they are failures as game companies if flash is all they have to offer, and sone amazing 3rd party 3ds games prove my point. Power isn't the end all be all, It's just an excuse to allow companies to release hardware twice a gen and pressure the "power is king" minded to fork over the cash. 

No, power is the reason why they can deliver all kinds of experiences and not just cater to a specific kind of fan. Power does not make games worse, it just gives developers more freedom. What they do with their freedom is their choice.

Believe it or not but even Nintendo developers would welcome it if they had more freedom to develop their games instead of being so restricted on extremely closed platforms.

They do not produce great games because of how restricted the platform is but in spite. Now imagine what they could produce if they're freed from the shackles.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

RolStoppable said:
Soundwave said:

There's pros/cons to both sides. On one hand the Wii was incredibly successful for 4 years, but dropped like a rock afterwards. 

On the other hand, had the GameCube been successful, it likely would've resulted in a lower peak but much longer than 4 years of success. 

There likely would be no Microsoft XBox in the business and Sega would still be out, leaving Nintendo to probably sell 50-55 million GCNs, then with the Playstation 3, if Sony had made the $600 error, Nintendo likely would've pounced on that and won that generation or at the very least made great inroads. So maybe a hypothetical "GameCube 2" sells 70-80 million units like the XBox 360 did. 

Motion gaming still could've been a thing on a hypothetical "GameCube 2" or even the GameCube itself ... Nintendo was researching the idea as early as 2001 (see the article), it was originally intended for the GameCube. 

The Wii sold over 10m units in its fifth year, so that's a bar that a 50m-selling GC wouldn't be able to touch, meaning no chance that your hypothetical GC would have longer success than the Wii.

The second flaw in your thinking is that Microsoft would not have bowed out after selling only 10m Xboxes (or however much it would have managed in your hypothetical scenario). Xbox was a defensive business strategy for Microsoft in order to prevent the what-they-believed looming disruption of Windows as an entertainment platform by Sony's PlayStation. The real Xbox lost $4 billion in four years and that didn't stop Microsoft from putting out another console because protecting the profits of Windows justified such an expense. The hypothetical Xbox might have lost even more money than that, but Microsoft's motivation would still have been in place, so the Xbox 360 would have come into existence either way. And it would have launched in 2005 all the same because the original Xbox (real or hypothetical) was a lost cause. Microsoft would still have thrown money at the problem, ran a major image campaign and bought plenty of third party support.

Meanwhile, Nintendo would have believed that they are fine after improving their numbers from the Nintendo 64 to the GC, so they would have put out a straight-forward GC2 and got beaten by both Sony and Microsoft. Nintendo would have launched their console in 2006 and gradually lost third party support for all the same reasons as in the real sixth generation, and their first party software might have been even more experimental as Super Mario Sunshine and The Wind Waker would have sold more copies on a console that sold 50m units.

Ultimately, all your hypothetical scenario achieves is postpone the inevitable: The realisation that Nintendo does not fit into a console market that increasingly becomes more about selling a dumbed down PC, because on one hand Nintendo's roots aren't the ones of a PC company and on the other hand consumers do not expect nor want Nintendo to put out a dumbed down PC. What you refer to as the traditional console market is incorrect, because the traditional console market was about bringing arcade games into people's homes and the original console hit games that were created had arcade-like gameplay at their respective cores; it was not about bringing PC games to consoles which is what Sony and Microsoft are all about nowadays.

Considering this was never replied to I take it the OP was in agreement?  This is my line of thought aswell. 

 

I'd just like to ask you Rol.  If you could create the ideal Nintendo machine,  would it be $400,  as powerful as the ps4 pro,  all the Nintendo console and handheld games on it,  plus 90% of third party support.  Or would you go for something else? 



If the gamecube used regular DVDs instead of the mini dvd it could have sold another 5 million and had more 3rd party software.Mini dvd = more expensive than regular DVDs, plus smaller in storage.



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vivster said:
bigtakilla said:

But the obvious thing here is that Nintendo have release to very high critical acclaim even without being on the best console specs available. 

 

I mean, do you honestly believe other game developers would just close down shop if all consoles released were only just as powerful as Wii U? Hint: they wouldn't. If so then I'd say they are failures as game companies if flash is all they have to offer, and sone amazing 3rd party 3ds games prove my point. Power isn't the end all be all, It's just an excuse to allow companies to release hardware twice a gen and pressure the "power is king" minded to fork over the cash. 

No, power is the reason why they can deliver all kinds of experiences and not just cater to a specific kind of fan. Power does not make games worse, it just gives developers more freedom. What they do with their freedom is their choice.

Believe it or not but even Nintendo developers would welcome it if they had more freedom to develop their games instead of being so restricted on extremely closed platforms.

They do not produce great games because of how restricted the platform is but in spite. Now imagine what they could produce if they're freed from the shackles.

But it's very possible to do. Saying Nintendo should go third party because they don't have the most powerful console is to say they can't provide amazing experiences without it, which is false. I have enough faith in the talent of game developers to believe they are capable of making new great experiences on any platform, even (as I mentioned before) the 3ds. It's their job to be able to do that. 

 



bigtakilla said:
vivster said:

No, power is the reason why they can deliver all kinds of experiences and not just cater to a specific kind of fan. Power does not make games worse, it just gives developers more freedom. What they do with their freedom is their choice.

Believe it or not but even Nintendo developers would welcome it if they had more freedom to develop their games instead of being so restricted on extremely closed platforms.

They do not produce great games because of how restricted the platform is but in spite. Now imagine what they could produce if they're freed from the shackles.

But it's very possible to do. Saying Nintendo should go third party because they don't have the most powerful console is to say they can't provide amazing experiences without it, which is false. I have enough faith in the talent of game developers to believe they are capable of making new great experiences on any platform, even (as I mentioned before) the 3ds. It's their job to be able to do that. 

 

Plus there are games in which I couldn't imagine playing without whatever Nintendo places on their hardware. Splatoon with the game pad really worked as the motion controls were simple, I could see the map without having to look it up on the main screen, squid jump is unique, and the whole experience felt intuitive. Pokemon on handhelds felt right. Wii Sports with motion controls was pretty fun and paved the way for new audiences along with Wii fit and others. Prime 3 felt great with motion controls as well as Skyward Sword with the sword gameplay. 



Johnw1104 said:
GhaudePhaede010 said:

I understand why it happened. But Nintendo could have tied it up in litigation which kept Sony from releasing a console at all (SNES CD or Playstation). Instead, they broke the contract and it crushed them.

Sony's piggy banks dwarfed Nintendo at that point, despite Nintendo's success. Sony was on top of the world in multiple markets in the 90's.

Basically, Nintendo didn't read the fine print that Sony slipped in (this whole episode reads as one experienced company taking advantage of an amateur) and likely couldn't have had much success in court given the language of the agreement clearly favored Sony. Nintendo had little choice but to back out at that point, and Sony had learned all they needed to about making a video game console from the experience.

If Nintendo takes Sony to court and even DELAYS the Playstation from launching, the history of gaming is changed dramatically. What you do not understand is that my post is not about NIntendo winning with the console, it is about stopping Sony. You are looking at this the wrong way. If Sony has to wait even one additional year (which we all know the lawsuit would have taken longer and could have killed off as many as five years) before launching the console, everything that happened for Playstation would not have happened.Nintendo made all the wrong moves and allowed Sony to take that technology and create the franchise that has essentially killed Nintendo for the better part of twenty years.

Nintendo did not have to back out. I understand why they backed out. I am saying that they made the wrong decision. They basically tried to say they were the big dogs and Sony would not be able to do anything about the situation and how wrong they were. Regardless of how you paint the picture, the fact is that this decision is the one that destroyed Nintendo.



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mountaindewslave said:

agreed with some other comments, the Wii, Nintendo's biggest success, came after the Gamecube... it obviously didn't deter the company

 

also fun fact: Nintendo actually made MORE profit during the GBA / Gamecube era than Sony did in the same period from the Playstation 2 (the best selling home console of all time). The point I'm making is the Gamecube wasn't poor in terms of profit

hardware sales aren't everything. I personally think the system and its controller are fantastic. The mini disks may have hurt them with third party developers BUT it did stop game copying and, again, Nintendo had healthy profit in the period 

DS is the comapny's biggest success. Just saying.



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Would GameCube being successful mean the possibility of Mario Galaxies game not being made? Because I'm not okay with that.