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Forums - Politics - Face it. It is over. Trump won.

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Trump or Hillary?

Trump FTW! 305 51.69%
 
Hillary all the way! 285 48.31%
 
Total:590
sundin13 said:

Fair. They are both liars, but trying to downplay someone's lies on either side is just silly and pulling out the measuring stick and trying to act like one guy's lies are better than someone else's is also fairly ridiculous.

The worst thing as the unbiased website I linked too proves that Trump lies far more than Clinton, its not even close

http://www.politifact.com/



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Democrats believe every day is April 15th.
Republicans believe every day is July 4th.



I hear this a lot online. "Face it, Trump's already won"
pretty much exactly as often as I hear "Face it, Trump's already lost"

I'm on the other side of the world of course. So I'm observing all this far removed from the situation. But for what little my observation matters to anyone, the latter sentiment seems to have more data to back up their claims.
For about the last month, Trump's campaign (notice I didn't say Trump himself) has been boasting that they will be saved from dismal opinion polls on election day by "stealth voters", which in the context of US political history is basically the state of a campaign gone on the defensive.
And there's a substantial history of presidential hopefuls claiming they'll pull a victory out of what looks like certain defeat based on these mythical 'stealth voters'. So far though, that's never panned out. So pattern recognition would lead me to bank on the polls being largely accurate in predicting voting outcomes, and these stealth voters fictitious.

Of course, this is the internet, where available utility for discussion naturally pushes everyone to binary extremes, ie. 'HILLARY WILL CRUSH TRUMP!!' and 'TRUMP WILL CRUSH HILARY!!'
In reality, it'll probably be a lot closer than anyone's bothering to consider, but at the moment it looks like Clinton will come out on top. But a lot can change between now and November.

Personally, I don't like Hillary. Based on her record, I simply don't trust her. However, when it comes to one of the most powerful offices on the planet, I'll take a classically untrustworthy candidate over one with zero political experience. Even if Trump is more genuine, that's little comfort to me, who very much hopes Trump DOESN'T go through with his promises.

Just based on that, there should probably be a third option in this poll. One labelled "Ugh. I'll take Clinton... I guess."



hopefully he is shot before that happens, we can only hope.



MikeRox said:
Baryonyx said:

For a country within 380mill people, this is what you guys ended up with.. 

I will just say, as a UK citizen not US, I'm not entirely sure the "people" are the ones who whittled it down to Trump and Clinton. I mean it's come out that Sanders was sabotaged by his own party.

 

I really think this sort of thing also occurred in the UK EU referendum. So I am starting to wonder if we do get a particular story sold to us. It's just that the internet and change in communication means that message is less effective and is leading to some sort of revolt.

 

I don't think the actual US population chose this particular set of election rivals, they're both too unpopular and no sane democrat or republican would have been pushing for either candidate.

 

I am starting to wonder if "mainstream" sentiment is being pushed as an agenda rather than actually being what most think.

Nope, Sanders wasn't sabotaged by his own party he is a Independent that ran as a Democrat.  The reason he did this is because no third party or independent ever got close to winning the presidency.  The closest anyone ever got to doing it was Teddy Rosevelt in 1912 as Progressive too bad he didn't do it since the US would have had a legit third party if he would have pulled it off but unfortunetly the Progressive party pretty much died shortly before he did. 



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Ljink96 said:
Trump has too small of a voter base to win anything. Yeah, he has a portion of white males, and for some reason middle aged to elderly white women but as we all know, America is made up of many different ethnicities and creeds. He doesn't have Women's vote, he doesn't have the African American vote, the doesn't have the Latino vote. Let polls be polls, when it comes down to it Trump just doesn't have the support the internet would like you to think.

I personally would have liked Sanders to run but Hillary is going to win this one by a landslide.

 

 

Trump may have support across a limited brand of people but its very high and intense levels of support unlike Hillary who has broad but shallow amounts of support. 

 

That is why the polls are close at all..

 

 

The issue is Hillary is to unlikeable as a candidate but they will largely stay home thinking its in the bag like Brexit.



Nymeria said:
tokilamockingbrd said:

trump up by 5 in Ohio now where he had trailed for quite a while. 

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/oh/ohio_trump_vs_clinton_vs_johnson_vs_stein-5970.html

Based on a single most recent poll, yes, he is, but tend to aggregate polls to give more complete picture which shows Ohio as toss up.

The point is Trump needs Ohio, while Clinton can afford to lose it and still win the over all election.

 

Imo defeating Trump requires a landslide for Hillary because if not the house and Senate will stay GOP and her agenda is dead in the water. 

it will be a victory for the Alt Right as a close victory would make them think there was cheating or they did 'well' considering all the factors.

 

I think if States like Ohio and  Flordia start to tip and trend towards GOP then this election will be quite close.

I personally think niether person will win 300 Electoral College Votes.

 

I see 278-260 Hillary

 

I see Trump Taking Flordia, Ohio, Iowa which are all states friendly to his racist messaging... Polls show him behind in North Carolina but I think if Romney can win it Trump can




LadyJasmine said:

Trump may have support across a limited brand of people but its very high and intense levels of support unlike Hillary who has broad but shallow amounts of support. 

That is why the polls are close at all..

The issue is Hillary is to unlikeable as a candidate but they will largely stay home thinking its in the bag like Brexit.

I agree that voter turnout is a very real thing in spite of polling but I think it's just too early to say. On the positive note Nate Silver's FiveThirtyEight is showing a positive trend for Trump and Johnson (This guy could spoil the election for Clinton in states like New Mexico and Colorado which means she doesn't have the secured 270 electoral votes to win anymore!) ... 

I too see that most Hillary supporters have shallow convictions ...



LadyJasmine said:
Ljink96 said:
Trump has too small of a voter base to win anything. Yeah, he has a portion of white males, and for some reason middle aged to elderly white women but as we all know, America is made up of many different ethnicities and creeds. He doesn't have Women's vote, he doesn't have the African American vote, the doesn't have the Latino vote. Let polls be polls, when it comes down to it Trump just doesn't have the support the internet would like you to think.

I personally would have liked Sanders to run but Hillary is going to win this one by a landslide.

 

 

Trump may have support across a limited brand of people but its very high and intense levels of support unlike Hillary who has broad but shallow amounts of support. 

 

That is why the polls are close at all..

 

 

The issue is Hillary is to unlikeable as a candidate but they will largely stay home thinking its in the bag like Brexit.

This is exactly why he can't win. Nobody wants a president who only appeals to one demographic. You're running an entire country, the US isn't a niche market company who only can relate to one group of consumers. Polls literally mean nothing. They never have. Polls had al gore ahead of bush several times but in the end well, you should know what happened. The whole system is rigged either way. I don't necessarily like Hillary either. She's not really likeable as a person, AND NEITHER IS TRUMP, but she will most likely get something done.

I'd rather have a non-likeable president than a complete idiot who promotes racism and bigotry.



Ljink96 said:
LadyJasmine said:

 

 

Trump may have support across a limited brand of people but its very high and intense levels of support unlike Hillary who has broad but shallow amounts of support. 

 

That is why the polls are close at all..

 

 

The issue is Hillary is to unlikeable as a candidate but they will largely stay home thinking its in the bag like Brexit.

This is exactly why he can't win. Nobody wants a president who only appeals to one demographic. You're running an entire country, the US isn't a niche market company who only can relate to one group of consumers. Polls literally mean nothing. They never have. Polls had al gore ahead of bush several times but in the end well, you should know what happened. The whole system is rigged either way. I don't necessarily like Hillary either. She's not really likeable as a person, AND NEITHER IS TRUMP, but she will most likely get something done.

I'd rather have a non-likeable president than a complete idiot who promotes racism and bigotry.

 

 

So your saying if Polls showed Hillary winning they are wrong too? 

I dont understand your narative.

After Brexit I think its wise to never underestimate what voters will do when they are angry.