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Forums - Gaming - Native 4K or Checkerboard "uprendered" 4k

eva01beserk said:
Peh said:

A 4K TV is also on my wishlist for xmas. Price will be around 1000-1500€. I will hook up my PC on it and play games with an xbox controller.

What!!? Prices are inflated in EU right? Cuz Ive seen 60" samsung for $1000 here, maybe thinking that by black friday I can shave a cuple of hundred on it. Althought I have no Idea what the HDR functions are, it dint clarify on the add. I know I should be looking for 10bit colour, I know nothing else.

Yh, the samsung UN55/60KS8000 is whats currently at the top of my list. Over 1000nits brightness, HDR10 support, great black levels and input lag of less than 23ms in game mode with HDR turned on. Pending on the size it's around $1300-$1700 for the 55 and 60" respectively. I'm just waiting on black Friday to see what kinda deal I get on it. 

There are cheaper TVs you could get, there are 60" you could get for the price of this TVs 55" model... but there are tons of resons why you shouldn't once you know what to look for. But you can use this site to read on everything about TVs or whichever models you sre looking for. They have the best  and most detailed TV reviews out there. 



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Intrinsic said:

This is true, the simple truth is that there is a distance from a display that if you are at and even if you squint it will be impossible for you to make out the individual pixels. aka screen door effect. As long as you can't see that it's also impossible to see anything that the screen door effect artifact will cause. What you would notice then though is that entire image will just not seem as sharp as it maybe could be (assumimg  you hsve seen sharper) thats the generalized effect of the screen door thingy. 

This whole thing becomes less and less the higher a rez you are at. 

This all doesmt just quite apply to PC gamers becasue they are usually sitting between 3-4ft from their screens.  So a higher rez is always better in those situations. 

As for the motion blur thing.... I wouldn't be surprised in the least if it's one of the many ways these devs do tricks. They probably have systems in place where when using it everything it's applied to is rendered  at a lower setting or something. Just like this thing they do with polygons today (no not tesselation) some other tech where even though the CPU sends the blueprint for what should be drawn in a frame, it also sends instructions so the GPU only draws the geometry that are front facing or that the player will be able to see. 

Probably already do indeed. Infamous SS background was quite blurry compared to the rest. Fake dof to suggest more detail than is actually rendered.

As for an image appearing sharper, would need to do some blind tests between the same image shown on an actual 4K screen, and downsampled to a similar quality 1080p screen. Supersampling adds detail and makes everything appear sharper. Checkerboard 4K downsampled to 1080p might have decent benefits as well.

There was a study by NHK to test the realness factor of higher res with people having to choose to which image feels more real. Above 120 pixels (60cpd) per degree it became more and more guesswork. http://www.displaydaily.com/component/tags/tag/285 (Too bad all the links are dead, this topic still refers to it http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&p=25192) Ofcourse this was all done in 2012 to prove the usefulness of 8K!

On the other end of the spectrum, psvr, 960x1080 per eye over 100 degrees, about 10 pixels per degree horizontally!



Intrinsic said:
eva01beserk said:

What!!? Prices are inflated in EU right? Cuz Ive seen 60" samsung for $1000 here, maybe thinking that by black friday I can shave a cuple of hundred on it. Althought I have no Idea what the HDR functions are, it dint clarify on the add. I know I should be looking for 10bit colour, I know nothing else.

Yh, the samsung UN55/60KS8000 is whats currently at the top of my list. Over 1000nits brightness, HDR10 support, great black levels and input lag of less than 23ms in game mode with HDR turned on. Pending on the size it's around $1300-$1700 for the 55 and 60" respectively. I'm just waiting on black Friday to see what kinda deal I get on it. 

There are cheaper TVs you could get, there are 60" you could get for the price of this TVs 55" model... but there are tons of resons why you shouldn't once you know what to look for. But you can use this site to read on everything about TVs or whichever models you sre looking for. They have the best  and most detailed TV reviews out there. 

Ill keep that site for when blackfriday arrives. To be honest, my bigest concern is size. I have a 60" 1080, so as long as its the same or biger with the adecuate hdr im fine. I wont look for anything in particular, Ill see whats on offer and then choose the best.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

Intrinsic said:
eva01beserk said:

What!!? Prices are inflated in EU right? Cuz Ive seen 60" samsung for $1000 here, maybe thinking that by black friday I can shave a cuple of hundred on it. Althought I have no Idea what the HDR functions are, it dint clarify on the add. I know I should be looking for 10bit colour, I know nothing else.

Yh, the samsung UN55/60KS8000 is whats currently at the top of my list. Over 1000nits brightness, HDR10 support, great black levels and input lag of less than 23ms in game mode with HDR turned on. Pending on the size it's around $1300-$1700 for the 55 and 60" respectively. I'm just waiting on black Friday to see what kinda deal I get on it. 

There are cheaper TVs you could get, there are 60" you could get for the price of this TVs 55" model... but there are tons of resons why you shouldn't once you know what to look for. But you can use this site to read on everything about TVs or whichever models you sre looking for. They have the best  and most detailed TV reviews out there. 

Damn that cheap over there? CAD 2600 and 3000 here for the 55" and 60" models, on sale.
http://www.bestbuy.ca/Search/SearchResults.aspx?type=product&page=1&sortBy=relevance&sortDir=desc&query=samsung+ks8000
That's $800 extra price gouging. I need a bigger car to pick one up in Buffalo :/ Still about 650 less after import duties on top of NY sales tax. Save almost 1000 on the 65" model.



 

eva01beserk said:

Ill keep that site for when blackfriday arrives. To be honest, my bigest concern is size. I have a 60" 1080, so as long as its the same or biger with the adecuate hdr im fine. I wont look for anything in particular, Ill see whats on offer and then choose the best.

If 60" is what ur after you will definately find something. As of righy bow the difference in price between the 55" and the 60" is about $400. I'm hoping that around BF i can get the 60" for around $1000 flat. LG has got some pretty great TVs and you probably would be able to get a 60" LG for under $800 around BF. Another benefit of the LGs is that they are the only ones that make TVs that support both HDR formats (HDR10 the common  open source one and Dolby vision). But it's black levels, input lag and overall screen brightness (important for HDR content) pushed me to the more expensive Sammy. 

 

SvennoJ said:

Damn that cheap over there? CAD 2600 and 3000 here for the 55" and 60" models, on sale.
http://www.bestbuy.ca/Search/SearchResults.aspx?type=product&page=1&sortBy=relevance&sortDir=desc&query=samsung+ks8000
That's $800 extra price gouging. I need a bigger car to pick one up in Buffalo :/ Still about 650 less after import duties on top of NY sales tax. Save almost 1000 on the 65" model.

 Unfortunately it's not that easy for me either . I don't stay in the states. I stay about a 3hr flight away in the carribeans. But I buy all my stuff from the states and using a dedicated courier service get them here. But even at that there is an almost 60% markup in total money spent after taxes and stuff get into the mix. Basically, if I buy a $1000 TV from amazon, by the time it's in my house I would have spent a total of $1600.  But that's still at least $1000 less than what it would cost to buy it from here. 

zero129 said:

IF you where looking at the original images on a 4K screen you wouldnt have to "Zoom" in.

Yh, true.... but I also won't be sitting 2-3ft away from said 4k screen would I? Unless you are telling me that you can see jaggies on the shoulder and arrorow and stuff while sitting 7-10ft away from a 50-60" TV.... even when looking at a 1080p image it's near impossible to see stuff like that a without some effort. So you trying to tell us the something better than 1440p is even worse than that?



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Intrinsic said:

 

eva01beserk said:

Ill keep that site for when blackfriday arrives. To be honest, my bigest concern is size. I have a 60" 1080, so as long as its the same or biger with the adecuate hdr im fine. I wont look for anything in particular, Ill see whats on offer and then choose the best.

If 60" is what ur after you will definately find something. As of righy bow the difference in price between the 55" and the 60" is about $400. I'm hoping that around BF i can get the 60" for around $1000 flat. LG has got some pretty great TVs and you probably would be able to get a 60" LG for under $800 around BF. Another benefit of the LGs is that they are the only ones that make TVs that support both HDR formats (HDR10 the common  open source one and Dolby vision). But it's black levels, input lag and overall screen brightness (important for HDR content) pushed me to the more expensive Sammy. 

 

SvennoJ said:

Damn that cheap over there? CAD 2600 and 3000 here for the 55" and 60" models, on sale.
http://www.bestbuy.ca/Search/SearchResults.aspx?type=product&page=1&sortBy=relevance&sortDir=desc&query=samsung+ks8000
That's $800 extra price gouging. I need a bigger car to pick one up in Buffalo :/ Still about 650 less after import duties on top of NY sales tax. Save almost 1000 on the 65" model.

 Unfortunately it's not that easy for me either . I don't stay in the states. I stay about a 3hr flight away in the carribeans. But I buy all my stuff from the states and using a dedicated courier service get them here. But even at that there is an almost 60% markup in total money spent after taxes and stuff get into the mix. Basically, if I buy a $1000 TV from amazon, by the time it's in my house I would have spent a total of $1600.  But that's still at least $1000 less than what it would cost to buy it from here. 

zero129 said:

IF you where looking at the original images on a 4K screen you wouldnt have to "Zoom" in.

Yh, true.... but I also won't be sitting 2-3ft away from said 4k screen would I? Unless you are telling me that you can see jaggies on the shoulder and arrorow and stuff while sitting 7-10ft away from a 50-60" TV.... even when looking at a 1080p image it's near impossible to see stuff like that a without some effort. So you trying to tell us the something better than 1440p is even worse than that?

A quick look at some tv and I can see what you mean. I think Ill be fine by black friday with like $800 tops.

I used to live in the caribean I know what you mean. I think I used t pay like 80% for electronics import tax and wheight of the item and all that.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

zero129 said:
Lawlight said:

Ah, you have to zoom in to see the difference?

IF you where looking at the original images on a 4K screen you wouldnt have to "Zoom" in.

I wouldn't be as close to my TV as I am to my phone or my laptop which would then make the minimal difference even less so.



zero129 said:

I never said i could . I was just pointing out that if viewing a 4K image on less then a 4k screen your not going to see the same thing you would see on a 4K screen.

And fyi many console gamers sit pretty close to their tv's too, hell thats how i started out!, Laying at the end of my bed in my room close to my big ass old crt tv. Ahh happy old days .and many of my friends still do it to this day (Without the crt part).

That is also true, that's how I stsrted out too. But most of these people are gaming on a 32" TV. Have you ever tried sitting 4ft from a 60" TV? it's not a comfortable experience at all. 

The bigger the screen size gets, the further back you would naturally want to go to find that sweet spot. 



Qwark said:
No one expected native 4k to begin with, but this checkboard upscaling does seem to be useful enough to actually utilizing the 2.4 extra teraflops right. And judging by it's contents the PS4 pro is a bargain for only €100- morte than either the PS4 slim or the Xone Slim. Even digital foundry is impresed by this checkboard upscaling, which means it brings us a sharper and clearer image which is clearly better as the vanilla PS4 as long as you own a 4k tv.

They are only impressed because the alternative to Checkerboard is your traditional upscaling.
Native > Checkerboard > Traditional Upscaling.
In that order from best to worst. :)

Peh said:

1080p is kind of unplayable on a 4k monitor. It looks awfully blurry.

Halflife 2 in 4k maxxed out AA

http://www.pic-upload.de/view-31674270/20160911_163611.jpg.html

close up:

http://www.pic-upload.de/view-31674283/20160911_163626.jpg.html

Halflife 2 in 1080 maxxed out AA

http://www.pic-upload.de/view-31674295/20160911_163659.jpg.html

close up:

http://www.pic-upload.de/view-31674304/20160911_163720.jpg.html

 

Depends on the panel.
The quality is less severe than other points in history where we have upscaled content, because this time around it's a straight quadrupling of pixels and you don't need to use funky algorithms to upscale 720P to 1080P with post-process to clean up the image.

For instance, it's sometimes better for me to run some content at 720P rather than 768P or 900P on my 1440P panel due to that fact.

None of it is as good as native content at your panels native resolution though, but you take what you can get. :P




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eva01beserk said:
Peh said:

A 4K TV is also on my wishlist for xmas. Price will be around 1000-1500€. I will hook up my PC on it and play games with an xbox controller.

What!!? Prices are inflated in EU right? Cuz Ive seen 60" samsung for $1000 here, maybe thinking that by black friday I can shave a cuple of hundred on it. Althought I have no Idea what the HDR functions are, it dint clarify on the add. I know I should be looking for 10bit colour, I know nothing else.

The prices in Germany are always with included 19% tax. But 1000€-1500 € is the price I would like to spend for a relative good TV. 4k with HDR and a fast smart TV should be included at a size of about 55" - 60". It will probably be a samsung.

My current TV is a 3 years old Samsung 46" Full HD edge LED with Smart TV and quad core processor. I paid 1500 € for it. The picture quality is really good, but at some point you can see clouding and such :/ I guess that's when he goes full brightness in dark pictures. That's really rare.  

Oh and.. no curved..



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