Damn that's expensive.

And it matters even less for 4K Blu-Ray, at least with regards to gamers. AV philes are a different market. 

Granted, the format is new enough that one can argue it just needs time to gain traction, but currently, it's looking more like 3D BD was in its heyday in terms of media support. It's a pretty small market. 

It's probably not the best comparison, seeing as how 4K HDTV should eventually become the standard, simply because they're already available for under $400, whereas the 120 and 240 hz 3D capable HDTVs were a harder sell. Manufacturers resorted to trying to convince consumers that the high refresh rates also made broadcast sports look significantly better. 

But, there is still going to be a market for people who just bought 4K HDTVs that want a player that takes full advantage of the extra resolution. I suppose the question to be asked is just how large is that AV phile niche.

There's a pretty strong argument that the XBO won the first round against the PS4 as well. 

There were quite a few missing features from the PS4 initially, some of which still aren't there and likely never will be. 

The PS3 was a far better multimedia console and still is today. 

I think you missed the point that I am a PC Gamer. Your Playstation cannot touch my PC. Shall we continue about discussing power? ;)

Talking about the improvements both companies have done to each console.
No opinion about it, no price/power/games library etc'.

Not exactly.

Not all TV's have great upscalers... Consoles tend to also do various passes on the output image to improve the final image, such as sharpening... Plus consoles have better scaling algorithms.

That will highly likely be very true.
And I would even assume the same would hold true with Neo vs Scorpio, Sony has some pretty spectacular momentum happening... Oh wait, were you trying to take a jab? I'm a PC gamer. lol

Manufacturing wise, it shouldn't really cost much more to implement 4k. It certainly doesn't for the PC.

If the PS4 Slim is also built at 16nm Finfet though, it might have the SoC price advantage going for it. (I wish I could get more low-level details about the fabbing. Ugh.)

The Xbox One S will upscale ALL non-4k content to 4k.
https://news.xbox.com/2016/08/02/xbox-one-s-4k-hdr/


"4K upscaling
In addition to supporting 4K video content when used in conjunction with a 4K TV, Xbox One S will also upscale non-4K content to display at 4K when paired with a 4K TV. When you set your console resolution to 4K UHD, everything on the console — Home, games, and apps—will display at 4K. 4K content is displayed in its native 4K resolution, and other content (like 1080p content) is upscaled to 4K."

Did I give you the impression I was comparing it on a sales basis? No? Exactly.

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/138586-xbox-one-s-4k-ultra-hd-blu-ray-and-hdr-examined-in-more-detail

There's something else to note though. The Xbox One S output drops from 2160p to 1080p when you insert a regular Blu-ray disc. That fits the native resolution of the Blu-ray, so the Xbox then isn't "upscaling", it's feeding that 1080p content to the TV and the TV is then making the pictures fit the display. 

The same applies to DVD, if you're still watching those too, but that's the right way to do it. You can't force the Xbox to output a 2160p image from these lower-res discs, so the TV is then doing any video processing it can to clean up the image.

Who to believe, marketing or review. Not that it matters much for movies, no display lag problems and the tv will probably do a better job at upscaling. However a dedicated upscaling 4K blu-ray player might do a better job than the tv.

Sort of (HDR is still a moving target)
http://ca.rtings.com/tv/tests/picture-quality/wide-color-gamut-rec-709-dci-p3-rec-2020

http://ca.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x800d
That tv does support wide color gamut, however it does not qualify for the UHD premium logo

Certifies a 10 bit panel, >= 90% of DCI P3 color, and 0.05 to 1000 nits brightness (or 0.0005 to 540 for OLED)
http://www.cnet.com/news/what-is-uhd-alliance-premium-certified/
The x800d can display enough of DCI P3, but peaks at 375 nits and only has an 8 bit panel.

The Sony x930d meets the specifications, as well as Samsung KS8000 to KS9500 series
http://ca.rtings.com/tv/tests/picture-quality/peak-brightness

Most tvs are only HDR ready, it's HD ready all over again.

Well... I guess a better question is, since HDR is such a "moving target." Will the TV that I linked see an improvement when viewing HDR content vs non HDR content?

Yes, it supports HDR10, can display the extra colors and does a decent job at HDR in a dark environment.
It's comparable to blu-ray on 720p tvs. Looks great, just can't show all of it.

Makes sense to pair an XBox One S with that. Budget HDR tv with budget HDR player. That will still look like a great improvement.

Alright awesome! Thanks for all your help btw. I learnt quite a lot today.

We are having two separate debates here. I'm arguing best value for a gaming console you are arguing best value for entertainment. 

As a gaming console 4K won't make a difference to either. A UHD player won't make a difference to either and more importantly, hardly anyone will buy 4K Movies considering how low BR sales are although regular BRs are tons cheaper than UHD BRs. 

I agree the option to have 4K output wouldn't have cost a lot, but it looks like they want more tick boxes for the Neo and they want more cost savings on the slim. 

The optical drive on the ps4 was around $28 compared to launch ps3's one which cost Sony $66. Sony obviously made their own which MS can't. I wouldn't be surprised if the optical drive for UHD is setting MS back around $40-50. Even at $40 it might not seem like a huge cost, but it increases the overall BOM cost massively. It's probably the 3rd / 4th most expensive component after the gpu and RAM (unless you factor in 1 & 2TB HDD costs). 

If you are right and I'm right about the cost of manufactoring PS4`s and X1's as per articles that show the breakdown of costs, the Neo should cost around the same as a launch day ps4 since it's using an old gpu. That will put it in direct competition with 1TB & 2TB X1S models. 

As for a drop in price, both can do that around holiday season even if it's just temporary. 

You are right about 4K TVs being more common than VR, unless VR becomes a thing, then it all changes. Although that is speculation, what isn't speculation is when the Neo is out, they can advertise it as the cheapest console with 4K, VR gaming and VR photos and VR films. They can also advertise the slim as the cheapest console to offer VR entertainment. 

Still agree with you, there is no reason why 4K output couldn't have been included, but it seems they have a simple strategy, out pricing their competition as a gaming device on both ends.