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Forums - General - FBI's decision on hillary Clinton is a joke

Aielyn said:
hershel_layton said:
"The similarity of such case to the Clinton controversy doesn’t seem to be lost on Comey. The FBI chief strongly stated that others who behaved as Clinton did wouldn’t necessarily get off the hook like the former secretary did."

This is why you shouldn't just listen to a media site with an agenda and trust their claim. He didn't say that Clinton got off the hook, or that others would be punished by the FBI where Clinton wasn't.

What he said (and you can find it in the official statement, here) is "To be clear, this is not to suggest that in similar circumstances, a person who engaged in this activity would face no consequences. To the contrary, those individuals are often subject to security or administrative sanctions. But that is not what we are deciding now."

What he's saying is that the things that Clinton did, and shouldn't have done, don't fall under FBI jurisdiction. She hasn't broken laws, she hasn't done something that she can be indicted for. If someone else did the same things, and the FBI were told to investigate, they would not charge them, either.

But what she did *could* be subject to various sanctions by the government, if they determined such sanctions to be appropriate. And similarly, an individual who does these things *could* have their security clearance downgraded, to ensure that they don't have access to confidential/classified information.

 

In other words, the FBI did exactly what they were supposed to do - they investigated whether Clinton had broken laws, found that no such laws were broken, and made a statement to that extent.

So she broke no laws. However, they realized she was extremely careless.

 

I wonder how this will affect her presidency. Clearly, she doesn't have a lot of people who like her, and seeing the statements of the FBI will probably  make her public image much worse.



 

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12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

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If she was guilty, she'd never be tried and actually be found guilty. Doesn't work that way. If Trump becomes president, it'll likely remain the same anyway.



Made a bet with LipeJJ and HylianYoshi that the XB1 will reach 30 million before Wii U reaches 15 million. Loser has to get avatar picked by winner for 6 months (or if I lose, either 6 months avatar control for both Lipe and Hylian, or my patrick avatar comes back forever).

dharh said:
DonFerrari said:

I know it's a different jurisdiction. My comment is just that it's ridiculous.

And on the IT infra... it's partially the fault of her higher up and president that she wants to succeed and probably says is fantastic. Second, you can't say that because the system would fail anyway you decided to fail first.

I lay the blame on the current state of government IT infrastructure mostly on the congress.  They are the ones who pass the budget.  

That is not the say that I think Hillary doesn't make bad decisions.  If she had wanted to follow procedure and use a 'secure' and sanctioned State Department server for her emails then it would have been done and we wouldn't be dealing with this stupid side show.  Instead she decided to be selfish and careless.  Also, plenty of people who _should_ have told her no, did not.

I would agree, but even if the congress aprove the budget it's the role of the president use it well. And considering how big the budget is I would bet it's missused.

And on the rest I totally agree. But on the people that should have said, are we certain they didn't?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Lawlight said:
JWeinCom said:

The reason the FBI didn't press charges is because they couldn't determine that she did so intentionally.  The law is a person has to knowingly expose government information.  Snowden clearly did.  With Hilary it's unlikely.

Even if you don't agree with the decision, that's a stupid comparison.

A better comparison may be Colin Powell.  Another secretary of state who used a private server and did not suffer any consequences.

Someone please tell me this post is a joke.

No. I will admit I was severely wrong though. Not gonna act like I'm right or anything.

 

I said something, people showed that I missed important parts, and I realize I'm wrong.

 

You're welcome



 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

Machiavellian said:
MTZehvor said:

The magnitude of the mistake is the reason why. People shouldn't lose votes simply for any silly mistake, but if you screw up badly enough, then it becomes very reasonable to doubt that person's ability to be responsible with far more at stake. Clinton was irresponsible in following basic security protocals and put US National Security at risk. If she's been shown to be careless with important in the positions she's held (and careless enough to the point where the FBI director basically said she would have been fired if not for her prestige), then there's reason to suspect that she will be careless as president.

Its probably good that a person have their major screw up before getting into office then during their time in office.  Pretty much every president makes small to large mistake no matter how popular they are viewed.  I believe this one counts as a learning situation for the goverment more than just HC.  As has been mentioned many times, this incident is not isolated to just HC, this has been going on for quite some time with goverment officials.

I don't think that's how mistakes work. You don't make a big mistake once and then become immune from making mistakes later on in life; Colin Powell's handling of the Iraq War and AQI throughout his tenure as secretary of state should be more than enough proof of that. And yes, maybe this incident should reflect just as much on the government as it does Clinton, but given how negatively Americans tend to view their government, I'm not sure that's a particularly favorable comparison.



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DonFerrari said:
Aielyn said:

I'd respond meaningfully to your statement, but I'm not even clear on what you're trying to say. Are you suggesting that my direct interpretation of the FBI comments, which clearly state that those who do what Clinton did might be subject to sanctions, but that the FBI weren't tasked with determining sanctions, was "mental gymnastics"? And what "spectrum" are you referring to?

I'm seriously at a loss to understand what you're trying to say.

The original quote is basically saying more in the light of "she should receive sanctions and they decided not to" than "this kind of thing could or could not end in sanction"

So your interpretation is moving from the guilty to not guilty

Erm... did you even READ the quote? "But that is not what we are deciding now". That's literally what they said. They said that someone who did what Clinton and her team did might be subject to administrative or security sanctions, but that's not what the FBI was judging.

Notice that the next step was the State Department reopening their investigation? Because administrative and security sanctions are the jurisdiction of the State Department, not the FBI.

This is literally exactly how this should have gone - she didn't break laws, so the FBI don't recommend the DoJ press charges, but her actions were certainly questionable, so the State Department is going to take the information the FBI gathered.

But hey, you've decided she's guilty of some vague, undefined crime, therefore me pointing out what they literally said must be me "interpreting" it "from guilty to not guilty", right?



Aielyn said:
DonFerrari said:

The original quote is basically saying more in the light of "she should receive sanctions and they decided not to" than "this kind of thing could or could not end in sanction"

So your interpretation is moving from the guilty to not guilty

Erm... did you even READ the quote? "But that is not what we are deciding now". That's literally what they said. They said that someone who did what Clinton and her team did might be subject to administrative or security sanctions, but that's not what the FBI was judging.

Notice that the next step was the State Department reopening their investigation? Because administrative and security sanctions are the jurisdiction of the State Department, not the FBI.

This is literally exactly how this should have gone - she didn't break laws, so the FBI don't recommend the DoJ press charges, but her actions were certainly questionable, so the State Department is going to take the information the FBI gathered.

But hey, you've decided she's guilty of some vague, undefined crime, therefore me pointing out what they literally said must be me "interpreting" it "from guilty to not guilty", right?

Then it may be my english interpretation on the "But that is not what we are deciding now". I interpreted that they decided not to go through and you interpreted as "we are not deciding a judicial situation"



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Then it may be my english interpretation on the "But that is not what we are deciding now". I interpreted that they decided not to go through and you interpreted as "we are not deciding a judicial situation"

Actually, the whole point is that they *were* deciding the judicial situation. She didn't break laws - that's what they found, that's what they decided.

If their intent was to protect her in any way, or to prevent negative consequences for what she did, then the FBI failed miserably, since they spelt out exactly what she did wrong, and what should be done about it. They were practically instructing the State Department to return to their investigation, although they have no authority over such issues.

Or do you believe that they spent the time to detail the big issues in order to attract criticism for the decision they made? Are they trying to sabotage their own announcement?

I'm not sure how you read it the way that you did, but the language was quite clear, even out of context. In context, there was no doubt - the "that" refers to "administrative and security sanctions", and such sanctions aren't within the purview of the FBI. Instead, they're in the purview of the department in question - in this case, the State Department. Hence, the State Department reopening the investigation. The FBI's comments were damning; they aren't the words one would use when trying to protect Clinton.



Aielyn said:
DonFerrari said:
Then it may be my english interpretation on the "But that is not what we are deciding now". I interpreted that they decided not to go through and you interpreted as "we are not deciding a judicial situation"

Actually, the whole point is that they *were* deciding the judicial situation. She didn't break laws - that's what they found, that's what they decided.

If their intent was to protect her in any way, or to prevent negative consequences for what she did, then the FBI failed miserably, since they spelt out exactly what she did wrong, and what should be done about it. They were practically instructing the State Department to return to their investigation, although they have no authority over such issues.

Or do you believe that they spent the time to detail the big issues in order to attract criticism for the decision they made? Are they trying to sabotage their own announcement?

I'm not sure how you read it the way that you did, but the language was quite clear, even out of context. In context, there was no doubt - the "that" refers to "administrative and security sanctions", and such sanctions aren't within the purview of the FBI. Instead, they're in the purview of the department in question - in this case, the State Department. Hence, the State Department reopening the investigation. The FBI's comments were damning; they aren't the words one would use when trying to protect Clinton.

I didn't said the FBI were protecting Clinton, I'm saying that they decided not go forward with it, and that it might be my poor english interpretation



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."