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Forums - Politics - Freedom or security?

Nuvendil said:

This kind of bifurcation of complex discussions is exactly what has caused intellectual discussion and philosophy among common people this generation to grind to a freaking halt. Are you a mysoginist or a feminist? Are you a hyper liberal or a hyper conservative? Do you want to take all guns away or do you have an abram in your basement? Are you an authoritarian yes man or a total freedom near-anarchist? And don't try to explain a middle ground or how extremes are almost always the worst options in complex situations because then your an indecisive coward who is unwilling to fight for freedom or order, depending on who you are talking to.

As for the Apple vs FBI debate, there IS no debate if both parties involved would get their heads out of their asses and use common sense. If incriminating documents were in a vault with an incinerator wired to the door to destroy evidence when the lock is picked or door is forced, you wouldn't just try to open it and hope for the best. You would find a specialist or preferably the designer to get it open for you. That's literally all this is. The smart phone is the vault, the "erase everything if you get the code wrong" is the incinerator. If the FBI would treat it as such and Apple would comply like what a normal, rational individual would there wouldn't *be* a debate. But no, even at the highest levels people have to make drama and get in pissing contests over simple issues.

The top bit; wow, just wow. Spoken as if you tore it out of my brain, I had this exact conversation at work today. I live in Sweden, the land without nuances and I feel like that every single day here, everything is polarized and either or and almost no one accepts middle ground suggestions.

Great post.



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I would go with 55% security. No need to go overboard.



Ask stefl1504 for a sig, even if you don't need one.

Freedom, something humanity have been fighting for and people are willingly today to sacrifice it over terrorist's when their own countries have done way worse towards humanity then terrorist's will ever be capable of doing.



 

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Definitely freedom, I don't trust the government enough.



Baryonyx said:
Freedom, something humanity have been fighting for and people are willingly today to sacrifice it over terrorist's when their own countries have done way worse towards humanity then terrorist's will ever be capable of doing.

The modern world is basically "1984" in real life. 



 

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Freedom, the government doesn't really protect anything except its status.



Since 9/11 freedom for citizens have been eroded as the Government boosts security to keep us all safe. The loss of freedom is the price citizens are willing to pay for more security. Economic freedom in America is still thriving and Capitalism has not changed since the election of Obama. Loss of individual freedom is ok, but the loss of economic freedom is bad. The loss of economic freedom results in higher taxes and more government control and on the road towards Communism.



Dark_Lord_2008 said:
Since 9/11 freedom for citizens have been eroded as the Government boosts security to keep us all safe. The loss of freedom is the price citizens are willing to pay for more security. Economic freedom in America is still thriving and Capitalism has not changed since the election of Obama. Loss of individual freedom is ok, but the loss of economic freedom is bad. The loss of economic freedom results in higher taxes and more government control and on the road towards Communism.

Capitalism is what rids people of freedom. There are millions of Americans who work at low wage jobs who have no hope of their future improving while a small minority reap the rewards. When we talk about security, we mean safety from violence. However, job insecurity leads to depression and hopelessness, and people become more desperate, leading to violence and crime (the very thing that "security" claims to prevent).



VGPolyglot said:

Capitalism is what rids people of freedom. There are millions of Americans who work at low wage jobs who have no hope of their future improving while a small minority reap the rewards. When we talk about security, we mean safety from violence. However, job insecurity leads to depression and hopelessness, and people become more desperate, leading to violence and crime (the very thing that "security" claims to prevent).

You always have a choice of sacrificing your current lifestyle to lower your working hours ... 

Capitalism needs losers for the brilliant to shine brighter, with communism everybody is a loser one way or another ... 

Financial dreams are not only meant to be fulfilled but there also meant to be crushed in the process too so I'd rather we have the 1% thrive rather than no one thriving at all ...



You just got to find the balance



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