... Once again your answer managed to completely avoid being an answer to my question... How do you even know that the mods don't own all three consoles? How do you know that some of them don't actually prefer the PS3 for its graphics, but just don't agree with someone because their arguments really do suck. This has been a pretty pro PS3 thread and I don't see a single mod in here criticizing any of the things that I have said. The fact it that most of the mods are more likely to side with the Sony people because they are so commonly bashed for being biased. The amount of shit that someone that is a known PS3 fanboy has to say before actually getting a ban is pretty huge. Kwaad has been the only PS3 guy that was actually banned (I think it was just a temp ban anyways) and the only reason he got banned was because he started a thread saying ban me. Lets disect one of your pro PS3 replies that you have said in the past. "So, about this ? Wii Need for Speed Carbon - 145,834 PS3 Need for Speed Carbon - 212,280 Wii The Godfather - 34,061 PS3 The Godfather - 50,270 Wii Blazing Angels - 32,779 PS3 Blazing Angels - 101,175 Wii Madden NFL 07 - 353,311 PS3 Madden NFL 07 - 380,387" The mods argued with you on this stating that the Wii versions of these games were really really shitty ports of games, so the comparison was never really fair to the Wii. Even of the ones that were high quality. It could be argued that none of these games are attracting the Wii gamer, simply because the games are more suited to a hardcore audience like on the PS3. Not to say that you couldn't be correct, but at this point in time it is unfair to make this argument. Does pointing out the flaws in your argument make me bias? It's just hard to side with you when you make a really really one sided argument. In a single sentence no less. Completely unbacked up with references that other people would... you know, be able to debate you on. Just to rephrase Blue's argument to what I my idea of what an unbias mod should do. A mod on an unbiased forum should not be expected to own all three consoles. They should even be allowed to have a personal preference as to which console is their favorite. Instead they should be able to look past that preference, and when making a comment on a thread, being in a position of influence, they should know to only engage in replies that they can back up with some cold solid fact. This should not mean that they are unable to state personal opinions of something. Just that they should make it clear that it is their opinion and not fact.

Oh and to answer your question about what game uses so much space. I kinda figured we were getting that big when I saw Might and Magic Dark Messiah (A rather shitty game using the 3 year old HL2 engine) use up 11 gb. I figured that games were making the jump to bigger sizes rather fast. When I saw HL2 at what was it 2 gb or 1 was it? I thought that was big, a year or two later Oblivion game out with 5 gb, then this game came out at 11 gb. I was kinda dumbfounded by the jump in filesizes...

I just thought I would add on one more thing. Blue-ray discs are actually designed to be really strong. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5jEbZt6AIQ This is a stress test of the Blue-ray disc to see how much it can tolerate. The amount of work you need to do to kill the disc is insane. That argument isn't really valid. Blue-ray would be nice for what that other guy said before, if you wanna watch an entire season of a show without getting up to change dvd's 5 times.

Aye but I dont have any trouble with normal factory coated DVD either. The problem is writable discs. Those do not have the same coating nor can they because they still need to be burned whereas factory produced discs can be pressed then coated. In other words, this doesnt really help the PC user at all. The discs may have 5x more space but they will be equally (5x) as vulnerable.

As far as the 11gig game goes... my guess would be that a lot of useless stuff is on the disc. I know that when I program redundancies sometimes slip through not because I dont know about them, but becuase there really isnt any reason to remove them or perhaps they decided not to compress FMV and audio as much. Uncompressed (or high bitrate) video and audio would take up huge amounts of space. Its just a guess however so I really dont have any idea why that game is 11gig. But again, if Oblivion can do it in 4-5gig, no other game I can think of should be even close unless theyre an MMO... "should" being the operative word here.

How do you delete those boxes? Ugh...anyway...

Actually, even the writable Blu-rays, unlike HD-DVDs, are scratch proof. You can sandpaper the data side and it will still work. Blu-rays have a protective layer due to the data being so close to the edge of the disc (allowing the 200GB theoritical instead of the 75GB I think for hd-dvd). Blu-ray is larger, scratchproof, and allows all the best video and sound formats. It is technically superior.

I love renting games now knowing that no matter what the previous user did to the discs, it will work. Fingerprints, scratches, drinks, it doesn't matter. All blu-ray discs protective coating.  I think BD-Rs are more reliable than hard drives now.

 Yep, Blu-Ray is definitely nicer. The only thing it has going against it at all is that it's more expensive, but that doesn't seem to be a huge hurdle thus far. 

Yeah, the players are a little more expensive.  If you compare players of similar quality then they end up being the same price, but a lot of people are settling for the lower quality, cheap players (both hd-dvd and blu-ray).

The discs, however, are now just as cheap to produce and according to http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/ the blu-ray discs are a lot cheaper on average when compared to hd-dvd.  Most titles end up the same price, but hd-dvd has the dvd/hd-dvd combo that costs $4 more than the blu-ray copies.

Anyway, as soon as the cheapest blu-ray players are on par with the cheapest hd-dvd players (regardless of quality, because apparently people don't care about that), hd-dvd will no longer have any advantage. 

While I agree that Blue-ray is the superior format, I’m hoping it doesn’t succeed.  In all honesty, I hope both the current offerings fail – I’m really hanging out for holographic media.

Off-topic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_disk

A Holographic Versatile Disc (HVD) can hold upto 3.9TB (yes, Terabytes!) with a transfer speed of 1Gb/s. But I’m more interested in the card variant - HVC:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_Versatile_Card. 

I agree with marc about solid state media.  Whenever there are moving parts, it’s only a matter of time before the device fails (fatigue due to mechanical stress) – I hope future efforts focus on solid state design.

Sorry to drag this further off-topic, but has anyone heard any news about these? According to wiki the HVC is due for a Japanese launch some time this year, with the cards costing roughly $1.00 .  Though the reader will be about $2000 

typical MS fanboy.

rather than admitting that HD DVD is dead he hopes that Blue-Ray fails too.

Pirates of the Carib 1& 2 would be released on BD on the 22nd.

watch out for the BD sales blast

Dude... did you even read my post?  FYI I like the Wii most this gen, but that's not the point.  I said I hope both Blu-ray AND HD-DVD fail.  Check the wiki links to holographic media - you gotta admit, they do look interesting .