rocketpig said: twesterm said: Do you ever see people driving on motorcycles? Most of them deserve to die. I see them all the time doing wheelies through intersections, weaving through traffic, and driving 100+ down the highway. As for someone borrowing your car: don't let people drive your car. If that person isn't on your insurance, why are they driving your car anyways? And once again, the auto-generated tickets work. Remember, the point of tickets isn't (or shouldn't be) to make money, it's to protect the citizens. It's true having a cop nearby makes you be a little more careful, but cops can't be everywhere at once. Whoa there, as a motorcyclist on dirt and street since I was seven years old, I find that more than a little fuckin' offensive. If you had any idea how stupid the average car driver is and how vulnerable you are on a motorcycle, you would be a little more courteous toward our two-wheeled friends and their behaviors. Half the shit you probably put in the "they deserve to die" category are actually defense mechanisms used by motorcyclists to not get fucking killed by some fucking soccer mom talking on a cell phone while doing her makeup (such as lane-splitting or driving slightly faster than the regular flow of traffic).

twesterm probably could have said it a little nicer, but motorcyclists are often problematic.  Not only do they often weave through traffic but they making a driving situation very precarious.  You can rearend the car in front of you and everyone will usually walk away just fine, but rearend a motorcyclist and the driver may not live to see the next day.  

So when you get a person driving a motorcycle carelessly combined with the fact that it would be very easy for them to get severely injured or killed when (not if) they screw up, it's a bad situation.

I don't honestly believe that every motorcyclist in existence is a poor driver, but I have never seen one that doesn't drive carelessly. 

There was a time when companies like State Farm gave motorcyclists discounts on their car insurance because overall, motorcyclists were proven to be more capable drivers.

Don't blame motorcyclists for driving an economical vehicle that eases traffic burdens and use the excuse that they shouldn't do it because most car drivers have their heads up their asses.

A study was done awhile back that showed in 70% of multi-vehicle accidents involving a motorcycle, the motorcyclist was not at fault. I have a hard time considering that "being problematic". It sounds more to me like people in cars should stop fucking around while driving and start paying a little more attention to the road.

If you spent your daily commute out in the open while surrounded by idiots in 4,000 lb. weapons of death hurtling down the road at 60+ MPH, you would probably have a bit of a chip on your shoulder, too. I sometimes laugh when I hear people talk about how crazy motorcyclists are when they don't even realize that much of what motorcyclists do that are considered "crazy" are actually defense mechanisms to prevent your dumb ass from running them over.

Words Of Wisdom said: twesterm probably could have said it a little nicer, but motorcyclists are often problematic.  Not only do they often weave through traffic but they making a driving situation very precarious.  You can rearend the car in front of you and everyone will usually walk away just fine, but rearend a motorcyclist and the driver may not live to see the next day.   So when you get a person driving a motorcycle carelessly combined with the fact that it would be very easy for them to get severely injured or killed when (not if) they screw up, it's a bad situation. I don't honestly believe that every motorcyclist in existence is a poor driver, but I have never seen one that doesn't drive carelessly.

You know what else is problematic?  Small cars or cars prone to rollover, people that don't wear seatbelts.  Let's just ban 90% of the cars on the road for being unsafe.  Or we'll just ban motorcycles since you don't drive one apparently.

 On the poor driver comment.  I would like somebody come in here and tell me they've never accidently ran a stop sign/red light, been at fault in an accident, or went >10 mph over the speedlimit.  Then you can chastise the driving of others.  Everyone has had a moment or two when somebody could easily call them a bad driver.

Back on topic, if you are completely sober, and accidentally run a stop sign and kill somebody.  You will get a citation for the accident, and 3-6 months in jail for a first offense.  If people are so afraid of tickets, maybe we just need to talk about our laws that are already on the books since people are apparently so afraid of paying a $90 ticket. 

rocketpig said: I don't honestly believe that every motorcyclist in existence is a poor driver, but I have never seen one that doesn't drive carelessly. There was a time when companies like State Farm gave motorcyclists discounts on their car insurance because overall, motorcyclists were proven to be more capable drivers. Don't blame motorcyclists for driving an economical vehicle that eases traffic burdens and use the excuse that they shouldn't do it because most car drivers have their heads up their asses. A study was done awhile back that showed in 70% of multi-vehicle accidents involving a motorcycle, the motorcyclist was not at fault. I have a hard time considering that "being problematic". It sounds more to me like people in cars should stop fucking around while driving and start paying a little more attention to the road. If you spent your daily commute out in the open while surrounded by idiots in 4,000 lb. weapons of death hurtling down the road at 60+ MPH, you would probably have a bit of a chip on your shoulder, too. I sometimes laugh when I hear people talk about how crazy motorcyclists are when they don't even realize that much of what motorcyclists do that are considered "crazy" are actually defense mechanisms to prevent your dumb ass from running them over.

Why doesn't State Farm provide that discount anymore? ^_^

Rocketpig, I know you're taking this personally but I know what I've seen.  I see motorcyclists who do very unsafe things.  The last time I was behind a motorcyclist was about 2 weeks ago.  He sped up to about 15-20 miles above the speed limit (I know because I was 10 over *shame on me*) and proceeded to begin weaving through every car in front of me.  I lost sight of him at a red light that he had already passed. 

cleveland124 said: You know what else is problematic? Small cars or cars prone to rollover, people that don't wear seatbelts. Let's just ban 90% of the cars on the road for being unsafe. Or we'll just ban motorcycles since you don't drive one apparently. On the poor driver comment. I would like somebody come in here and tell me they've never accidently ran a stop sign/red light, been at fault in an accident, or went >10 mph over the speedlimit. Then you can chastise the driving of others. Everyone has had a moment or two when somebody could easily call them a bad driver.

Why are you reacting with so much hostility to my post?  

I agree with small cars being unsafe.  Driving one is a pain as a strong wind literally feels like it will blow the car over.  I drive a medium-sized car (over 3,400 lbs) so it corners and holds the road a lot better.

I'm not talking about a single moment of thoughtlessness, I'm talking about every motorcyclist I've seen.  That includes local and crosscountry driving.  I'm sure there's a safe and intelligent motorcyclist out there, I've just never seen her on the road. 

cleveland124 said: Words Of Wisdom said: twesterm probably could have said it a little nicer, but motorcyclists are often problematic. Not only do they often weave through traffic but they making a driving situation very precarious. You can rearend the car in front of you and everyone will usually walk away just fine, but rearend a motorcyclist and the driver may not live to see the next day. So when you get a person driving a motorcycle carelessly combined with the fact that it would be very easy for them to get severely injured or killed when (not if) they screw up, it's a bad situation. I don't honestly believe that every motorcyclist in existence is a poor driver, but I have never seen one that doesn't drive carelessly. You know what else is problematic? Small cars or cars prone to rollover, people that don't wear seatbelts. Let's just ban 90% of the cars on the road for being unsafe. Or we'll just ban motorcycles since you don't drive one apparently. On the poor driver comment. I would like somebody come in here and tell me they've never accidently ran a stop sign/red light, been at fault in an accident, or went >10 mph over the speedlimit. Then you can chastise the driving of others. Everyone has had a moment or two when somebody could easily call them a bad driver.

how many drivers fail to signal and/or check mirrors and side of vehichle when changing lanes/turning, make short lefts (i.e. cutting the corner), eating food, talking on cell phones, putting on makeup, swating at children, talking to friends in the car, reading the paper, doing the daily crossword puzzle, etc.. I've had more close calls from people who don't know how to turn left at a stop light and end up cutting across my lane, than I have pretty much anywhere else on the road.

I know 400-500 safe sport bike riders who I am a group of. After every accident, people go over how to avoid it next time. We pay 100% attention while riding, because we know those caging it won't be paying attention, and that the bigger the vehichle the more likely they are to just run us down and not bother to care about other drivers at all. We have no distractions, because we are occopied with our riding, and defending our space. I'll speed if it means I can safely pass a tractor trailer or avoid other road hazards.

If we went to everyone driving a mini-cooper the roads would be 1000's of times safer because everyone would just bounce off the next without having to deal with tons of steel flying around.

Twestern, you probably deserve to be banned off the board for comments like that, and I hope you never run into any cyclists and say that in front of them. You think your driving is all proper and safe, yet you probably break just as many rules as the next guy.

And for those complaining about motorcycles weaving in and out of trafic, I've seen many more cars do it (in sheer quantities, rather than percentage of vehichle) than any motorcycle. And splitting lanes is a very safe practice, that all but americans follow, because americans have the me first attitude, which will cause cagers to fill with rage and run down that person who took advantage of free space in slow moving trafic.

nordlead said: I know 400-500 safe sport bike riders who I am a group of. After every accident, <snip>

Irony is great.

Dunno why State Farm doesn't do that anymore... Maybe because insurance companies are fucking bastards? There could be a million reasons.

As for one unsafe action, I won't argue that some motorcyclists do stupid shit... After all, there's a famous corner on a mountain road outside Los Angeles called "Squid's Leap" because so many new motorcyclists have gone flying off the corner to an untimely demise over the years. That's not the point. What the point is that blaming motorcyclists for stupid fucks talking on cellphones in SUVs is wrong.

Get ass-ended once on a motorcycle because some stupid fuck wasn't paying attention and you would probably take a slight on motorcyclists personally, too. Blaming them for fucking around while talking on your cellphone, eating, doing your makeup, etc. while driving is hypocritical and wrong. You're the threat to the safety of our roads, not that dude on a bike who is fucking around a little too much. He crashes and he hurts himself and little else; you crash out of incompetence and there's a good chance someone will die.

Words Of Wisdom said: nordlead said: I know 400-500 safe sport bike riders who I am a group of. After every accident, Irony is great.

 Just because you are safe, doesn't mean a car can't just run you over. The two biggest reasons for motorcycle accidents are drunk riders, and cars that turn in front of a motorcycle that is going straight.

 Sometimes you can learn from it and know what to watch out for when people aren't paying attention.