@timmah: Can you read? You did excally the same thing and I pointed it out. You said:

Really show me which of reports you posted even dare to suggest that? None of your reports stated this but they only showed correlation between religiosity and live expectancy not showing the real couse.
From first report:

The report about Adventist belivers:


What is funny, that you have chosen those articles yourself. And even there you can find opinions that religious practices don't help you live longer. Not to say about your blatant lies in the first post.

kamil said: @timmah: Can you read? You did excally the same thing and I pointed it out. You said: If a weekly churchgoer spends roughly 1.5 years in church, they have a net gain of life OUTSIDE of church over the non-churchgoer. So God gives that time back to us . Really show me which of reports you posted even dare to suggest that? None of your reports stated this but they only showed correlation between religiosity and live expectancy not showing the real couse. From first report: Hall cautions that few conclusions can be drawn from his study, and that further research is needed. "There is no evidence that changing religious attendance causes a change in health outcomes," he said. The report about Adventist belivers: The church has always preached and practiced message of health -- no smoking, alcohol, rich food, caffeine. And they recommend plenty of exercise, such as daily walks. But not all researchers are convinced it extends life. "There's no evidence that there's any medical benefit to religious practices," said professor Richard Sloan of the Columbia University Medical Center. What is funny, that you have chosen those articles yourself. And even there you can find opinions that religious practices don't help you live longer. Not to say about your blatant lies in the first post.

No need to be so derogatory! The fact that you just insulted my intelligence and accused me of being a liar shows that you're more prone to insults and personal attacks than real debate. Absolutely rediculous. Where did I lie?? I simply stated some findings that had been shown in some of the the studies, nothing more. Don't EVER accuse me of being a liar!! EVER! That's one thing I definitely am not.

You have shown yourself for what you are. My discussion with you is over.

Edit: Once again, nice job backing up your statements. You called said I had 'blatent lies' in my first post without actually saying what they were. My statement was that studies have suggested that religious people tend to live 1.8-8 years longer on average than non-religious. Was I lying by stating what had been found in some of the studies?? Or was I lying when I stated my opinions later?? The fact that the reports included other opinions for balance does not make me a liar. Just because you don't agree with it does not make it a lie. This is tyipcal of people like you. Attack the person rather than debating the ideas in a civil manner.

And the statement 'God gives that time back to us' was merely my opinion, I never said the studies specifically said that. Stating an opinion does not make me a liar.

timmah:
This is a lie:

And putting studies below that supposedly support your statement makes it even worse. You have abused science and misused those reports. I am sorry but this isn't kind of behavior I have no respect for. Also I haven't insulted your intelligence (which I have no way to measure) but called you a liar and mis-reader.

kamil said: timmah: This is a lie: If a weekly churchgoer spends roughly 1.5 years in church, they have a net gain of life OUTSIDE of church over the non-churchgoer. So God gives that time back to us . And putting studies below that supposedly support your statement makes it even worse. You have abused science and misused those reports. I am sorry but this isn't kind of behavior I have no respect for. Also I haven't insulted your intelligence (which I have no way to measure) but called you a liar and mis-reader.

Hahahaha! Are you serious?? C'mon.

This is where you fail. A lie is defined as: a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.  

That statement was my genuine OPINION, something I BELIEVE, and thus cannot be a lie. It was my interpretation of the data. You simply have no respect for people who disagree with you. A lie is a purposeful mis-statement of fact to support something that the person KNOWS is not true. I simply stated my genuine opinion on the data, nothing more. It was not a lie by any definition of the word.

@timmoh: I don't agree with. If you only have said:

Than it could have been consider only your opinion. But when above statment is preceded by:
and then followed by links to scientific studies your opinion becomes indistinguishable from article's claim and thus it suggest that it's a proven claim derived from articles. Putting this that way is deceitful and thus can be called a lie.
And this is the problem. Not your opinion but the way you stated it.

If you would add "in your opinion", "I think", "I belive" before your statment than it would be ok becouse a reader would have no problem distinguishing your opinion from articles' claims.

kamil said: @timmoh: I don't agree with. If you only have said: If a weekly churchgoer spends roughly 1.5 years in church, they have a net gain of life OUTSIDE of church over the non-churchgoer. So God gives that time back to us . Than it could have been consider only your opinion. But when above statment is preceded by: I beg to differ! There are many scientific studies that show Churchgoers live an average of 1.8-8 years (or so, depending on the study) longer than non-churchgoers. and then followed by links to scientific studies your opinion becomes indistinguishable from article's claim and thus it suggest that it's a proven claim derived from articles. Putting this that way is deceitful and thus can be called a lie. And this is the problem. Not your opinion but the way you stated it. If you would add "in your opinion", "I think", "I belive" before your statment than it would be ok becouse a reader would have no problem distinguishing your opinion from articles' claims.

Seriously, dude, it was a quick post and I threw a few articles I was able to find on there. It was in no way meant to decieve, and your calling me a liar suggests that I was intending to decieve people. To suggest what my motives were by calling me a liar was a little overboard IMO. I pride myself on being a very honest and truthful person throughout my life, and suggesting I'm a liar bothered me to be sure. I can concede that I may not have phrased it perfectly, but that in no way shows I had deceptive intentions.

I respect your opinions and you have a right to them, I just don't appriciate what I see to be a personal insult. Lying is a very serious thing to me, so to me it comes across as a very personal attack. Just try to understand where I'm coming from on that.

I think we should agree to disagree on this one.

Christmas and Easter is so over commercialized it has lost most of its true meaning. Hardly anyone goes to church these days.

You are mostly right Rock_on_2008. But Easter Sunday is still the most attended service of the year (I think, but it could be Christmas...).

@Valknut: Sorry that you keep having bad experiences at church. The guy with the candle... he was an idiot. Don't worry about him. God doesn't worry about candles at baptisms. God also doesn't care too much if there is tons of incense burning in the church these days. All I can say is find a church that you don't mind attending and go from there.

Also I call Lifechurch.tv "my church" because I feel connected to it. Not in some "OMG! WE DRANK KOOL-AID TOGETHER" type of connection. It is a much deeper thing that I can't easily explain. Tough to put this type of thing into words. I am hardly in charge of the daily running of my church. I do volunteer after the last service though, I help tear down the equipment.

We are currently meeting in a school gym on the weekends, so we have to setup the equipment beforehand and then tear it down afterwards. However, do not think that the church is just a building. That is simply where we meet. Each person is a part of the church, and that is what I am referring to mostly.

Also it is our belief that God is (or rather should be) the most important thing to us. After all, He gave us our life, and so we thank him for that. I am starting to sound preachy I think... I believe that God listens to me and will answer my prayers. They are not always the answers I am looking for however, but God works all things to the good of those who believe in Him. I could ask him for a million dollars, but God rarely operates in such a way as to plop that money down in my lap. He will usually take the route of opening doors that will take me down a path to be able to earn that money in some way, though not all of us are meant to have a million dollars.

Again I am sounding preachy... sorry... Don't let my ranting and raving get in your way of looking into the message God is trying to tell you. I am but a very poor servant of His... But I know that He loves me and looks out for me anyways.

luinil said: It is true, Darwin converted very near his death. Anyways about me. What I believe does not mean that I follow it all the time because I am not perfect. Sex = ONLY in marriage. Curse Words = Not used (I fail often) Abortion = Killing an unborn human = BAD!~!! (PLZ don't go off on this topic) Censorship = political issue = I think things should be regulated to the proper forum. I think all porn should be put into a new registration type where all domains much end in ".xxx" or ".sex" or the like. But just my opinions. I do have reasons for them all though. All are based in Biblical roots.

Thats bullshit

One woman claimed that she was at Darwins deathbed, and claimed that he had converted and denounced evolution. However, the people who were actually at his side claimed that he did no such thing, and it was later proven that she was never at Darwins deathbed.

Timedog... That is fine that you disagree, but I have requested several times that there is no foul language here.... could you please edit that part out? It degrades your comments.