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Forums - Politics - Americans and Non-Americans, What is Your Opinion on the United States of America in General

freedquaker said:
sc94597 said:
freedquaker said:

Wealth Inequality in US
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM

The video forgets to mention a few things.

What Wasn't Said in "Wealth Inequality In America"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44LHBViTZI0


It is true that Income Mobility is also important as the complementary video suggests but what THEY forget that the income mobility in US is also very low! So the legend that you can be a rich guy even if you are poor as heck is no longer true, by a long shot. A simple googling for "Income mobility US vs OECD" will provide you a legion of studies supporting this.

http://www.epi.org/publication/usa-lags-peer-countries-mobility/

The above study, for example, demonstrates the "Intergenerational earnings correlations accross OECD", and US is among the top, which is OPPOSITE of income mobility. In other words, US is not only a very UNEQUAL country in terms of income and even more so, in terms of wealth, worse yet, it is also one of the least income mobile countries.

sc94597 said:
freedquaker said:

For the last 20-30 years, things have changed big time. Just look at any economic statistics, US has started to lag severely. The wage rates are trailing, inequality is on the rise, health care system is shattering, and the education quality is suffering, not to mention the decades old infra structure. Just take a look at the following statistics and you'd be hard-pressed to believe that this is supposedly the leading country in the world!

http://www.oecd.org/unitedstates/CN%20-%20United%20States.pdf

You forgot to mention things at which the U.S excels  though. Cost of living and marginal cost of living are much lower than other first-world countries. Economic mobility is at an all time high.

The link you posted shows the U.S. is above the OECD average in practically everything.

Some interesting quotes in your link:

"At the same time, the payoff for obtaining a higher education degree is much higher in the U.S. than in most OECD countries.
For example, over the course of his working life, a tertiary - educated man in the U.S. can expect to earn almost USD 675 000 more than a man with no more than an upper secondary or postsecondary non-tertiary education–far more than in any other country.
Meanwhile, a woman with tertiary education in the U.S. can expect to earn almost USD 390 000 more on average, an amount approached only by tertiary-educated women in Ireland, the Netherlands, Portugal, and the United Kingdom
Over the last decade, the earnings advantage of tertiary graduates over high school graduates has increased in the U.S.from 181% to 184% among men and from 169% to 175% among women . All told, the net present value of obtaining a higher education  –that is, the long term economic benefits, minus the associated costs  – is almost USD 330 000 for a man in the U.S. and more than USD 168 000 for a woman. Only in Portugal is this amount higher"

"Overall, the net public return in the U.S. amounts to USD 232 779 for each tertiary - educated man, and USD 84 313 for each tertiary-educated woman. For men, this public return is higher than in every country but Hungary; for women, it is the 7th-highest return among OECD countries"


And that is without conisdering non-economic factors to quality of life that should be considered. 

I actually did not forget to mention that. The US has of course many advantages, not everything is worse, many pros and cons. As you point out, many goods and services in US are way cheaper. However, you cannot just argue the quality of life with cheaper iphones, groceries and gas. There are many more vital things, which easily drag people to poverty. What's more expensive or worse in US? Healthcare, pre-college education, insurance, transportation, safety, freedom etc. The US lags most of the development in all of these.

What is also even more important is that even US is still better than half of the OECD in many aspects, things are GETTING WORSE, at least relatively. I am healthcare economist, so let's give an example about it. Life Expectancy at birth...

Year 2000 :

US : 76.7 years, OECD : 77.1

Year 2011 :

US : 78.7 years, OECD : 80.1

 

Now we are talking about the OECD AVERAGE, not the best of OECD, so it includes the likes of Chile, Mexico, and Turkey. The US was worse than this average, and the gap got bigger in 11 years; this is with 3 times the expenditure per person.

 

The point is that even though income inequality increased, so did the income mobility. When one considers the large racial and ethnic component involved in these income distributions, it makes sense that the diversity found in the U.S versus other countries will affect the statistics. Especially when you realize that the income mobility in similarly diverse countries, such as the UK is lower than in the U.S. Additonally there are more gains to be made in other countries than there are in the U.S, which was already ahead for so long and had to reach a point of lower increases in income.

Again you are comparing apples to oranges. The U.S is a much more diverse country than most European ones. Higher crime rates for example, tend to be isolated to large cities and the southern states where this diversity is more pronounced. The same is true for life-expectancy, and income inequality in general. If, we were to say compare the income inequality in each state, rather than among them, then it would more closely compare to European inequalities. It makes very little sense to compare the income of a person in New Hampshire to that of a person in Mississippi, because the costs of living are quite large. Furthermore, in a country of 315 million you are going to have many billionaires just because the population is so large. I buy groceries, pay rent, etc daily. I go to the doctors once in every three to four years. I think I would rather cheaper daily living expenses than health-care.

So I want to bring up the point that it is more important to look at marginal changes within the context of the U.S rather than to compare it with countries that are quite homogenous in their population distributions, in all ways. There has been more mobility in the U.S between 1990 and 2010 than between 1970 and 1990. There has also been declining crime rates since the 80's. 

Also that comparison with life expectancy tells me that other countries have been making progress (particularly the lower end ones that you mentioned) more than anything else. It makes sense when you just build infrastructure. The U.S is an unhealthy country by habits. It is quite telling that despite being overweight at the prevelance that we are, we are able to keep up within +/- 2 years of the OECD average.



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Rab said:

Australian here, you have pretty much the same opinion as me about your country

I often have conflicting emotions about the US, I admire many of your people for their achievments, but I feel put off by your current politcal system, international policy, and social policies

Every American I have met in Australia I have liked a lot, smart, friendly, open minded, but it maybe the ones that travel are your best.

I went to NASA some years ago, and really felt love for the US then, but on the way to see NASA I traveled on vast road networks with every second "car" being a truck, then I felt less positive, such a contradictory country, I think the US is so vast and varied that no one idea encapsulates the country  


Thanks for your opinon. It is a pretty contradictory country.

I would love to visit Australia someday, and would actually be a country I would consider moving too.



I have been living in America for three years now. Is it everything I expected? I don't know yet. One thing for sure is that the specific community I live in has a very particular sort of people-outdoorsy folks. Therefore, in other schools or surrounded by other people I had a strong gut feeling that my experience would have been very different.

Two main concepts of that I have learned from my experience are 'hustling' and 'indifference." Hustling means that in order for to accomplish your goals/plans you need to have a tight grip on things. You must be alert at all times and never rest for a minute. The other concept 'indifference' is very new to me-a 360° change from my hometown. It involves not caring if someone has more than you do or what they think of you. For instance, back in Peru if someone was wealthy you tried to cater to them and try to keep them as a friend. Here, I don't care if someone is richer than me I will cut them from my life if they are being annoying.Or some friends who I haven't spoken to in a while, if I never see them again, I wouldn't mind.




I love you guys, thanks for everything good in my life(except Nintendo)



i've never been to United States (and I'm not sure if I ever will) but one thing that has been annoying me for quite some time now on internet forums and Youtube videos is how every single little thing becomes a racial war over there (mostly between blacks and whites).  And I'm like: Gosh people! relax. No every little thing has to be about race.



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Its a great country and would be even greater if there was less government. It seems the government takes money from those who are productive and give it to those who are not. Also, it would be great if America support their own products more like Japan. Im not saying everything you buy should be made by American companies, but you should support them if you can. Companies are what allows us to have free public school,jail,social programs and more.



 

Again you are comparing apples to oranges. The U.S is a much more diverse country than most European ones. Higher crime rates for example, tend to be isolated to large cities and the southern states where this diversity is more pronounced. The same is true for life-expectancy, and income inequality in general. If, we were to say compare the income inequality in each state, rather than among them, then it would more closely compare to European inequalities. It makes very little sense to compare the income of a person in New Hampshire to that of a person in Mississippi, because the costs of living are quite large. Furthermore, in a country of 315 million you are going to have many billionaires just because the population is so large. I buy groceries, pay rent, etc daily. I go to the doctors once in every three to four years. I think I would rather cheaper daily living expenses than health-care.

So I want to bring up the point that it is more important to look at marginal changes within the context of the U.S rather than to compare it with countries that are quite homogenous in their population distributions, in all ways. There has been more mobility in the U.S between 1990 and 2010 than between 1970 and 1990. There has also been declining crime rates since the 80's. 

Also that comparison with life expectancy tells me that other countries have been making progress (particularly the lower end ones that you mentioned) more than anything else. It makes sense when you just build infrastructure. The U.S is an unhealthy country by habits. It is quite telling that despite being overweight at the prevelance that we are, we are able to keep up within +/- 2 years of the OECD average.

Diversity is not an excuse for inequality, bad healthcare, bad education etc. Canada, and Australia are both as diverse as the US, but still a lot better in almost all statistics. Please let's not try to delude ourselves, suggesting that other ones are making progress; of course they do, but the results will not change for the better if you omit them. To the contrary, they will get a lot worse.

Now, let's take South Korea, for example, which spends only a quarter of US in healthcare.

Life Expectancy at birth, US vs Korea

2000 => US : 76.7, Korea: 75.9;  US / Korea -1 = + 1.1%, gap : + 0.8 years
2011 => US : 78.7, Korea: 81.1;  US / Korea -1 =- - 3.0%, gap : - 1.4 years

Same comparison with Canada, which spends about half of US in healthcare.

Life Expectancy at birth, US vs Canada

2000 => US : 76.7, Canada: 79.0;  US / Canada -1 = -3.0%, gap : - 2.3 years
2011 => US : 78.7, Canada: 81.5;  US / Canada -1 =- 3.6%, gap : - 2.8 years

Again with Australia, which also spends about half of US in healthcare.

Life Expectancy at birth, US vs Australia

2000 => US : 76.7, Australia: 79.3;  US / Australia -1 = -3.4%, gap : - 2.6 years
2011 => US : 78.7, Australia: 82.0;  US / Australia -1 =- 4.0%, gap : - 3.3 years

 

In every single comparison, the gap between the US and the other country got bigger. Meanwhile health costs in the US have doubled! There is absolutely nothing to defend about that.

The very same arguments can be told about inequality in the US, as well as income mobility. It is funny that only those who defend high inequlity resort to concepts such as income mobility, which is HIGHLY CORRELATED with income EQUALITY. Just like America is highly unequal, its income brackets are also very immobile. Nevertheless, along with the income inequality, the income mobility has declined (which really does not matter when the country is SO UNEQUAL).

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/23/business/upward-mobility-has-not-declined-study-says.html?_r=0

Regarding the inequality in each state, things will not change for the better in the US. Yes, Connecticut may have a higher life expectancy but so does Sydney, or Seoul. As a matter of fact, the difference between states is actually low in America. So basically everything that is said about the US in general is true for every single state. Just check out the wiki page for inequality! 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_Gini_coefficient

Basically, all your arguments, though theoretically reasonable, are wrong. You should fact check first, especially when you are talking to someone who made his masters and phd thesis on those fields (healthcare and education efficiencies in OECD and in the US).



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Regional Analysis  (only MS and Sony Consoles)
Europe     => XB1 : 23-24 % vs PS4 : 76-77%
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MoHasanie said:

Its okay. Very similar to Canada but with less friendly people and more crime. I wouldn't mind moving to the States if I got a job there. 

Pretty much.  Take Canada add crime+assholes, minus the free healthcare, make it more crowded, less nature, add in a shit load of guns and you get the US.



We could have free health care if we weren't obligated in protecting so many people.



chakkra said:

i've never been to United States (and I'm not sure if I ever will) but one thing that has been annoying me for quite some time now on internet forums and Youtube videos is how every single little thing becomes a racial war over there (mostly between blacks and whites).  And I'm like: Gosh people! relax. No every little thing has to be about race.

If it makes you feel better, that's basically Europe at the moment as well, only substitute "blacks and whites" for "Europeans and Middle Easteners"