^ It is a founding member, but just what does it have to say as they're under american survielance right now? In a few years, when the situation stabilizes and american troops pull out they'll be able to manage their oil more openly and raise the prices high enough to earn enough money to rebuild what the war destroyed. and that has economical sense in it.

@Muyo (for short), Europe won't feel anything that much, believe me. We have a very strong inner economy in the UE, which can hold it's own weight. Sure that it won't be all roses, but you're comparing Japan to a whole continent. Japan is totally dependent on other countries, both economicaly and politicaly. Europe and especially the UE? Nah-uh. We have our own resources that are suffice, except for oil.

If it were true that the US situation were to severely effect my country, we would have an economical crisis right now, and somehow i can't seem to find one, or in any other European country. Let's face it, the only countries in trouble right now are : Iraq (because of the oil the world wants plus Bush), USA and Japan (because it is totally dependent on other super economical powers). My country Poland? Enough to say that we have a near 6% GPD growth the past year, our currency is gaining strength, especially against the Dollar and Pound lately, the stock market, although not as good as some months ago, is still on a pretty good level. We are far more inflicted by inner UE decisions rather than anything else. My endpoint: We may have some trouble, but we'll get by, unlike the US if this keeps up.

Would you be as kind to tell just what countries America tried to "parent" into welfare without asking for something in return? As far as i remeber, it was the US which went on to fight in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq (twice) for reasons that shouldn't have really concerned them. Not to mention that the country is quite hypocritical when policing the world. It took off China from the list of countires that defy human rights the most. One year ago it was still holding the number one spot. This makes it all the more crappier with the tibetan demonstrations that are going on. So far there are more than 30 people reported killed by the supressing army. Killed, not aressted. So far, i haven't heard a single word from any of the american political leaders. Kind of discouraging, don't you suppose?

Rath said: starcraft said: stof said: Kazadoom - do you really think that everyone who criticizes George W Bush has no understanding of politics at all? Of course we realize that it's a complex world with numerous factors that all play together. It just so happens that the policies of the United States Government, which is led by the Republican party, whose leader is George W Bush is by far the most negative factor of them all. And George and his fellow party elite are the largest determining factor of those policies. Islamic extremists? Arms industry? Oil industry? Dictatorships? Chinese communism? Russian authoritarianism? In the worldwide economic slump? The oil and arms industries are booming, Islamic extremism hasn't had an effect since the post 9/11 slump, dictatorships cause far more localised problems, the Chinese economy is running well and Russias economy is actually recovering somewhat.

Stof didn't mention the economy.

 

starcraft said: Rath said: In the worldwide economic slump? The oil and arms industries are booming, Islamic extremism hasn't had an effect since the post 9/11 slump, dictatorships cause far more localised problems, the Chinese economy is running well and Russias economy is actually recovering somewhat. Stof didn't mention the economy.

 If you haven't noticed this entire topic is about the economy. It should be assumed that he was talking about the economy, especially as half the page above him was talking about how the Bush presidency has damaged the economy.

 

Rath said: starcraft said: Rath said: In the worldwide economic slump? The oil and arms industries are booming, Islamic extremism hasn't had an effect since the post 9/11 slump, dictatorships cause far more localised problems, the Chinese economy is running well and Russias economy is actually recovering somewhat. Stof didn't mention the economy.   If you haven't noticed this entire topic is about the economy. It should be assumed that he was talking about the economy, especially as half the page above him was talking about how the Bush presidency has damaged the economy.

What he was talking about was politics, which he specifically DID mention.  It was effectively a left-wing rant at George Bush, something that is becoming increasingly popular these days, whether justified or not.

I don't know why Bush is blamed for ruining the economy... (/sarcasm)

-Too much money printing
-Too low of interest rates
-Not enforcing regulations in housing/appraisal/lending

-Too much spending with out return (War)
-Outsourcing and importing by the government
-Allowing companies like KBR/Halliburton to run the war in Iraq with a blank check
-Ruining our image abroad
-Scaring companies from doing business in the US by trying to infringe on other countries sovereignty (Sanctions that target foreign companies, but to be fair Clinton did this, too)
-Blocking research
-Prevented the U.S. from being competitive.
-Lost valuable allies

-Robbing from the middle class with tax cuts for the Rich, and EIC for the poor. 

FishyJoe said: famousringo said: FishyJoe said: Holy crap, the Japanese market is down almost 5% today. The US dollar is at an all time low. I have a bad feeling about this. Nintendo and Sony are falling too. With the dollar so weak, it makes Japanese products very expensive in the US. Anyone hoping for a price cut from Nintendo or Sony better not hold their breath. Consequently, this will make the Xbox 360 very cheap outside of the US. Would it really? Aren't they built in China like everything else? They are paying for them in US dollars to China, but are being paid in Euros or whatever country they are sold in. So for product sold outside the US, they are paying less to produce and taking more in dollars.

True, but thats also true for Nintendo and Sony-> prices fall in EU and Japan and stay (or rise) in the US. Simple, isn't it?

 

Lingyis said: all we can do now is cross our fingers and hope. there's really not much to be said. the "dollar standard" as we know it could be ending before our very eyes. i hope not, but it could well be the case. the US economy is resilient, but this mess is pretty major. i hope european central banks realize that if america fails, the world economy suffers a great deal. in other words, i hope they would cooperate with the Fed a little more, which really isn't happening right now. it seems as though the europeans are taking a very passive approach to america's problems. you can't really blame them, but you just can't help but wonder just what is that they're thinking these days. stock markets go up and down, that's fine with me. but the massive dollar depreciation is really worrying. i hope that the bottom is near and foreigners start buying US currency again. one statistic: last month's Fed treasure auction was bought by only 8% of foreigners, as opposed to 25% a few months ago. that figure obviously need to go back up. only a perception that the dollar has hit a bottom would that happen, which is why other central banks need to cooperate with the Fed. actually, it'll take more than just central banks, but at least it's start. plus it buys some time, at least.

Off course, we european have to pay for Americas problems and helping China with America automaticly. Don't think so. America got deep in without us. Its enough that our banks where stupid enough to pay the real estate bubble (at least to an extend). I think we live fine withouth helping out. If anything we just need to give our internal market a boost. America can dig themselve out of their whole. Bill Clinton was able to once (and bush destroyed it). I don't pay higher taxes than the avarage Joe in America, so he can get my money ;)

 

starcraft said: What he was talking about was politics, which he specifically DID mention. It was effectively a left-wing rant at George Bush, something that is becoming increasingly popular these days, whether justified or not.

 Alright, because you clearly aren't going to accept my argument that Stof didn't go wildly off topic for no reason I will provide some proof. His post was in reply to Kazadooms post that follows.

 "All you people blaming George Bush, please name one thing that he specifically has done to cause this? It is amazing to me that you think that one man has all this power. Please name one thing that he himself did specifically that caused Japan's bad market, if it really is that bad. Plus the US market other than the housing market is not bad anyway."

Clearly this post is based on economics. So for your position to be correct, not only would Stof have had to go wildly off topic but he would also have had to made a replythat would have no relevance to the post that he was replying to. 

Wojtas said: ^ It is a founding member, but just what does it have to say as they're under american survielance right now? In a few years, when the situation stabilizes and american troops pull out they'll be able to manage their oil more openly and raise the prices high enough to earn enough money to rebuild what the war destroyed. and that has economical sense in it. @Muyo (for short), Europe won't feel anything that much, believe me. We have a very strong inner economy in the UE, which can hold it's own weight. Sure that it won't be all roses, but you're comparing Japan to a whole continent. Japan is totally dependent on other countries, both economicaly and politicaly. Europe and especially the UE? Nah-uh. We have our own resources that are suffice, except for oil. If it were true that the US situation were to severely effect my country, we would have an economical crisis right now, and somehow i can't seem to find one, or in any other European country. Let's face it, the only countries in trouble right now are : Iraq (because of the oil the world wants plus Bush), USA and Japan (because it is totally dependent on other super economical powers). My country Poland? Enough to say that we have a near 6% GPD growth the past year, our currency is gaining strength, especially against the Dollar and Pound lately, the stock market, although not as good as some months ago, is still on a pretty good level. We are far more inflicted by inner UE decisions rather than anything else. My endpoint: We may have some trouble, but we'll get by, unlike the US if this keeps up. Would you be as kind to tell just what countries America tried to "parent" into welfare without asking for something in return? As far as i remeber, it was the US which went on to fight in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq (twice) for reasons that shouldn't have really concerned them. Not to mention that the country is quite hypocritical when policing the world. It took off China from the list of countires that defy human rights the most. One year ago it was still holding the number one spot. This makes it all the more crappier with the tibetan demonstrations that are going on. So far there are more than 30 people reported killed by the supressing army. Killed, not aressted. So far, i haven't heard a single word from any of the american political leaders. Kind of discouraging, don't you suppose?

This is not how friends treat each other.  We should have left the Soviets to handle you as they pleased.

phil said: This is not how friends treat each other. We should have left the Soviets to handle you as they pleased.

 Wait, you're trying to claim that America, one of the most introverted countries in the world, gave a damn about Europe during the Cold War? The entire war was because America saw the Soviets as a threat to their status as the worlds most powerful country which is why they wanted them to not get more powerful, hence MAD.

Lets face it, America hardly rushed to help the Allies in either WWI or WWII, you can hardly claim they owe you a debt.