Not to mention the oil's running out.
| totalwar23 said: Look, we all know in the US, parties will change their position and competency over time due to the influx of new members and history changing events. Unless something extremely terrible happens which forces desperation, I hardly think people will choose a authorian political system (who makes false or radical promises to gain popular support) over a free one. Short of being invaded, not all political systems collapse from incompetent leadership. |
You're saying that there is such a thing as a political system which is immune to collapse due to inside pressure. If you can actually find such a system and show that this is true, then I'll pay for your ticket to Stockholm, Mr Nobel Prize winner. But, that's a check I probably won't have to cash. You're probably just naive.
| Lord N said: This is a common misconception. Soviet military spending did not increase at all during the Reagan era, and the Soviet Union would have collapsed just the same without it. On another note, it's true that the president has no control over the ups and downs of the business cycle, but there are things that he can do to mitigate economic downturn and set the way for recovery, and Bush has failed miserably in that regard. It certainly doesn't help that he decided to piss away the surplus on tax cuts for the rich, drag the US into a needless and counterproductive war which has cost hundreds of billions of dollars, or fund arcane and ridiculous projects with deficit spending instead of focusing money on areas where it would have helped the economy.
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I'm not defending Bush but ...
How many people here are employed by a poor person? The fact is that a reduction in corporate taxes creates jobs and is far better for "poor people" than a similar tax cut would be for them; beyond that corporations are not (really) owned by a bunch of "rich people" who own top-hats and monocles, they're owned by everyone who invests, or has a pension.
Bush's mistake was he produced tax-cuts while increasing spending, and thus ran up high deficits which devalues the dollar and creates (high) inflation.
| totalwar23 said: Umm, when did democracy collapse there? And it wouldn't be due to incompetent leadership, more like ethnic turmoil. And Iraq is not exactly a natural democracy, a forced one thanks to Bush. |
Technically, you're right. Iraq's democracy hasn't fallen completely apart yet and there's still some vague semblance of order there. But give it a little time. As soon as the US withdraws, you can watch that house of cards collapse. The problem of ethnic turmoil is something the leadership class has to deal with. If they can't deal with it, then they're incompetent. Even Saddam was able to handle the ethnic and sectarian differences.
phil said:
Technically, you're right. Iraq's democracy hasn't fallen completely apart yet and there's still some vague semblance of order there. But give it a little time. As soon as the US withdraws, you can watch that deck of cards collapse. The problem of ethnic turmoil is something the leadership class has to deal with. If they can't deal with it, then they're incompetent. Even Saddam was able to handle the ethnic and sectarian differences. |
Well, that's not going to happen, because if McCain's elected, we'll be there for 100 years. 
Now, Saddam, he handled sectarian violence by killing everyone who disagreed which plays an integral role in the ethnic problems we have today in Iraq. Secondly, we have no way of knowing what will exactly happen. The people in that region are morel likely to listen to their spiritual leaders than to the government itself. I could say that civil war might break out after the US leaves and they'll end up partition the country into 3 parts, each creating three different stable democratic government, ones that the majority of each populace will want instead the crappy one they have today, which can't seem to do anything.

kazadoom said:
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Where to start. Sadam Hussein didn't have weapons of Mass Destruction. At best the intellegence seems to show that he thought he had them and his subordinates were lying to him... and at worst he just wanted everyone to think he had them.
Otherwise, at worse he picked contradicting data, at best it looked like he forged data, as the yellow cake uranium incident is one of the main pushes of the war. Which last I checked seemed to be linked with government contracts to build US helicopters.
The funny thing is... that due to the Iraq war someone has Yellow Cake Uranium now. We don't know who. We just know it's gone from where it was in Iraq legally.
Well that's not so much funny as it is just further evidence of how the war has been a complete and utter mess. Since at best Yellow Cake Uranium was just carried but lost.... and worst case scenario, terrorists now have yellow cake.

phil said:
No. He said a real life practical non pure communist state couldn't possibly work, because a theoretical pure communist state can't possibly work. I'm not the one being obtuse. Here's my point: the idea that the fall of the Soviet Union was, or that the fall of any communist nation is inevitable is absurd. |
They were already headed towards massive economic problems that would of likely felled their country before Reagan even restarted the war. He just restarted it to push them off the ledge. (Or to try and push them over the edge if you think it had no effect.)

phil said:
You are now burdened with the responsibility of proving that there actually were WMD in Iraq or looking like a total jackass. Congrats. My money is on jackass, btw. |
Here is something for you. This was from an official report in 2003
WASHINGTON — The United States has found 500 chemical weapons in Iraq since 2003, and more weapons of mass destruction are likely to be uncovered, two Republican lawmakers said Wednesday.
"We have found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, chemical weapons," Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pa., said in a quickly called press conference late Wednesday afternoon.
Reading from a declassified portion of a report by the National Ground Intelligence Center, a Defense Department intelligence unit, Santorum said: "Since 2003, coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent. Despite many efforts to locate and destroy Iraq's pre-Gulf War chemical munitions, filled and unfilled pre-Gulf War chemical munitions are assessed to still exist."
My Tag: 2 Timothy 3:1
Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to Heaven! (John14:6)
Every second 2 people die . . . What if this is your second?
phil said:
You're saying that there is such a thing as a political system which is immune to collapse due to inside pressure. If you can actually find such a system and show that this is true, then I'll pay for your ticket to Stockholm, Mr Nobel Prize winner. But, that's a check I probably won't have to cash. You're probably just naive. |
I'm saying in a modern society we have today, it's near impossible for a political system to collapse just because you get several incompetent leaders in row. You point, I believe. The US has had a stable political system for over 200 years now, and survived past the Great Depression, an era ripe for instability and you're telling me if more incompetent leaders emerge after bush, we'll be seeing a new form government. You're too cynical, man.

kazadoom said:
Here is something for you. This was from an official report in 2003 WASHINGTON — The United States has found 500 chemical weapons in Iraq since 2003, and more weapons of mass destruction are likely to be uncovered, two Republican lawmakers said Wednesday. "We have found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, chemical weapons," Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pa., said in a quickly called press conference late Wednesday afternoon. Reading from a declassified portion of a report by the National Ground Intelligence Center, a Defense Department intelligence unit, Santorum said: "Since 2003, coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent. Despite many efforts to locate and destroy Iraq's pre-Gulf War chemical munitions, filled and unfilled pre-Gulf War chemical munitions are assessed to still exist."
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Santorum, are you kidding me?
And those weapons are not WMDs.
