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Forums - Politics Discussion - Why Does Society On A Whole Look Down On Pedophilia?

Here is a conversation from the article I posted between two pedophiles who support eachother and try to prevent eachother from looking up child pornography. Both were  under 18 at the time.  So its obvious that said people need help with dealing with their preferences and alienating them doesn't help anything. I put it in spoilers for those who don't want to read it. 

1:46 PM Mike: so you’re right
i do have a problem
i’ve started googling pictures of girls in their underwear and such on a regular basis
so fucking awful
1:47 PM Adam: …you need to stop this before it’s too late
if I can, so can you
Mike: yeah
ive even seen some CP show up in the results
Adam: :o
Mike: that was really disturbing
it wasn’t serious
Adam: did you look at it?
Mike: no
admittedly I kinda wanted to though
1:48 PM Adam: you need to stop



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Mythmaker1 said:
Dunban67 said:


i agree people should not be arrested for thought-  no disagreement there

You said the line between homosexuality and pedofilia did not exist-   that is what i was speaking to- 

How many pedofiles exist that claim the tag or are otherwise identifed as such  but have not engaged in their desire?  I bet few if any

They deserve all the negative stigma that exist and more-  there is no defense of the act-   and pedofiles that have not acted are probaly rare, and are ticking time bombs as they relate to chidren -  sooner or later most (probably not 100% but close) will act

I can t imagine anyone that wants to lessen the stigma and offer more rights to pedofiles that isnt actually a pedofile - just calling it like i see it

The reason for the bolded is probably due to the underlined sentiment. Just saying.

there is nothing stopping them from getting counselig now-  no laws need to change and no stigmas need to be changed-  they can t discuss situations in which children have been harmed but otherwise their therapy is protected the same as any other



sundin13 said:
JWeinCom said:

Eh... you really going to waste your time trying to prove something that's pretty much universally agreed upon?

At any rate, you're going to have trouble finding a scientific explanation for a legal phenomena.  What you should look for is the damage that can be caused by child abuse, and brain development as related to decision making.  You could also look into the studies they've done regarding obedience to authority with both adults and children.

 

I'm not trying to prove anything, I was just curious. The problem that I've walked into is that it is universally agreed upon despite a lack of scientific evidence, which I find interesting. I have found another article, which speaks more in depth about how the brain develops in regards to decision making and it becomes exceedingly difficult to draw a line due to the fluidity of the brain and the fact that it doesn't fully develop until well past even the highest ages of consent.

As for the potential of damage, the problem is that damage isn't always objectively caused through sexual abuse and due to low reporting statistics, it is difficult to find a number to represent how often damage is caused. The paper I posted earlier suggested that majority may not produce harm. I'd be curious to see a study with the numbers more laid out, which actually controlled for a number of factors instead of trying to use more blanket definitions.

As for the power dynamics and obedience, it is pretty damning. I'd say there is no denying that the power dynamics of the situation severely mess up any possibility for consent.

Dunban67 said:

sooner or later most (probably not 100% but close) will act

You really can't make claims like that without backing it up...


Prove me wrong-  



Dunban67 said:
Mythmaker1 said:

The reason for the bolded is probably due to the underlined sentiment. Just saying.

there is nothing stopping them from getting counselig now-  no laws need to change and no stigmas need to be changed-  they can t discuss situations in which children have been harmed but otherwise their therapy is protected the same as any other

Just because something isn't illegal doesn't mean it is easy to do something. There are societal reasons why a pedophile will keep his/her pedophillia to his/herself. Here is what happened when a kid was taken to therapy because he wanted help with his pedophilia. 

https://medium.com/matter/youre-16-youre-a-pedophile-you-dont-want-to-hurt-anyone-what-do-you-do-now-e11ce4b88bdb?%3Fc=upworthy

He was called into her office, his heart racing as he stepped toward the door. She closed it behind them, offered him a seat, and began the session with questions familiar to anyone who has been in therapy, “family history, how many siblings I have,” that kind of thing. She scribbled his answers down in a notepad, and then asked why he had come to see her. Adam had never in his life felt such dread. His body began to shake as he explained that he suffered from anxiety. She asked what was making him anxious, and he just blurted it out: “I’m a pedophile and I’m addicted to child pornography.”

She blinked at him for a moment and then asked him to repeat himself. When he did, her mood changed. “She just became extremely cold and harsh,” he said. “She even, a few times, almost got to the level of shouting.” She suggested that he was simply nervous around kids his own age — a reaction I’ve learned is common among therapists with limited experience in this area. She told him she wasn’t trained to deal with the situation, but she would ask around for information on how to help him and scheduled a second session for a couple of weeks later.

Mandated reporting revolutionized the way child abuse is handled in the U.S. and has brought many incidents to light, but it can be problematic for young men like Adam who haven’t abused children. The civil and criminal liabilities facing those who fail to report someone who goes on to molest a kid, combined with the fact that it need only be based on suspicion and not probable cause, means a report could be triggered when well-intentioned individuals reach out for help. The overwhelming number of minor-attracted men I spoke with said this was too much of a deterrent. Which also makes it harder to learn more about them.

There is a lot we still don’t know about pedophilia—one researcher described our scientific understanding of it as a series of “pretty big black holes.” We don’t know, for example, how someone comes by an attraction for prepubescent children in the first place. The research we do have, and this is derived from very small sample sizes, suggests that those attracted to kids tend to be shorter, left-handed, and have a lower IQ than the broader population. Another study found that being knocked unconscious before the age of 13 might be a factor. This may sound like quackery, but it points toward biological causation. In other words, it’s likely that pedophiles are born this way.

Things are a little clearer when it comes to the numbers. Studies suggest that up to 9 percent of men have fantasized about having sex with a prepubescent child, and 3 percent of all men have gone on to sexually offend. (Not all of them would meet the diagnostic criteria for pedophilia. The latter figure includes situational offenders, men who abuse children if the opportunity arises but who otherwise have no pre-existing attraction to kids.) Michael Seto, director of the University of Ottawa’s Forensic Research Unit and associate editor of Sexual Abuse: A Journal of Research and Treatment, believes that the prevalence of male pedophiles sits closer to 1 percent of the population, which would equate to at least 1.2 million in the U.S. alone. (Female pedophiles exist, but in smaller numbers.)



Hynad said:

Am I the only one who's sickened by the very notion of asking such a  question openly like this?


no you are not-  it makes me sick- 



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Dunban67 said:
sundin13 said:
JWeinCom said:

Eh... you really going to waste your time trying to prove something that's pretty much universally agreed upon?

At any rate, you're going to have trouble finding a scientific explanation for a legal phenomena.  What you should look for is the damage that can be caused by child abuse, and brain development as related to decision making.  You could also look into the studies they've done regarding obedience to authority with both adults and children.

 

I'm not trying to prove anything, I was just curious. The problem that I've walked into is that it is universally agreed upon despite a lack of scientific evidence, which I find interesting. I have found another article, which speaks more in depth about how the brain develops in regards to decision making and it becomes exceedingly difficult to draw a line due to the fluidity of the brain and the fact that it doesn't fully develop until well past even the highest ages of consent.

As for the potential of damage, the problem is that damage isn't always objectively caused through sexual abuse and due to low reporting statistics, it is difficult to find a number to represent how often damage is caused. The paper I posted earlier suggested that majority may not produce harm. I'd be curious to see a study with the numbers more laid out, which actually controlled for a number of factors instead of trying to use more blanket definitions.

As for the power dynamics and obedience, it is pretty damning. I'd say there is no denying that the power dynamics of the situation severely mess up any possibility for consent.

Dunban67 said:

sooner or later most (probably not 100% but close) will act

You really can't make claims like that without backing it up...


Prove me wrong-  

Impossible. For all you know everyone around you is a pedophile. You'll never know who's a pedophile unless they act. 



Ltd predictions by the time 9th Gen comes out

Ps4:110million

Xbox one :75 million( was 65) 

Wii u: 20 milliion

Dunban67 said:


Prove me wrong-  

Things are a little clearer when it comes to the numbers. Studies suggest that up to 9 percent of men have fantasized about having sex with a prepubescent child, and 3 percent of all men have gone on to sexually offend. (Not all of them would meet the diagnostic criteria for pedophilia. The latter figure includes situational offenders, men who abuse children if the opportunity arises but who otherwise have no pre-existing attraction to kids.) Michael Seto, director of the University of Ottawa’s Forensic Research Unit and associate editor of Sexual Abuse: A Journal of Research and Treatment, believes that the prevalence of male pedophiles sits closer to 1 percent of the population, which would equate to at least 1.2 million in the U.S. alone. (Female pedophiles exist, but in smaller numbers.)



padib said:
mysteryman said:

Probably because the only paedophiles we hear about are those that do act upon it. So the word has become synonymous with molestor and rapist. Those struggling with their urges are hardly going to put themselves into the spotlight and hope they aren't judged and abused for it.

I don't believe that attraction to those younger (or older for that matter) is congenital (which I do believe is the case for sexual gender orientation). But instead caused by environmental factors.

By what logic?

Arrested development. Aren't most paedophiles victims of child abuse themselves?



sc94597 said:
Dunban67 said:

there is nothing stopping them from getting counselig now-  no laws need to change and no stigmas need to be changed-  they can t discuss situations in which children have been harmed but otherwise their therapy is protected the same as any other

Just because something isn't illegal doesn't mean it is easy to do something. There are societal reasons why a pedophile will keep his/her pedophillia to his/herself. Here is what happened when a kid was taken to therapy because he wanted help with his pedophilia. 

https://medium.com/matter/youre-16-youre-a-pedophile-you-dont-want-to-hurt-anyone-what-do-you-do-now-e11ce4b88bdb?%3Fc=upworthy

He was called into her office, his heart racing as he stepped toward the door. She closed it behind them, offered him a seat, and began the session with questions familiar to anyone who has been in therapy, “family history, how many siblings I have,” that kind of thing. She scribbled his answers down in a notepad, and then asked why he had come to see her. Adam had never in his life felt such dread. His body began to shake as he explained that he suffered from anxiety. She asked what was making him anxious, and he just blurted it out: “I’m a pedophile and I’m addicted to child pornography.”

She blinked at him for a moment and then asked him to repeat himself. When he did, her mood changed. “She just became extremely cold and harsh,” he said. “She even, a few times, almost got to the level of shouting.” She suggested that he was simply nervous around kids his own age — a reaction I’ve learned is common among therapists with limited experience in this area. She told him she wasn’t trained to deal with the situation, but she would ask around for information on how to help him and scheduled a second session for a couple of weeks later.

Mandated reporting revolutionized the way child abuse is handled in the U.S. and has brought many incidents to light, but it can be problematic for young men like Adam who haven’t abused children. The civil and criminal liabilities facing those who fail to report someone who goes on to molest a kid, combined with the fact that it need only be based on suspicion and not probable cause, means a report could be triggered when well-intentioned individuals reach out for help. The overwhelming number of minor-attracted men I spoke with said this was too much of a deterrent. Which also makes it harder to learn more about them.

There is a lot we still don’t know about pedophilia—one researcher described our scientific understanding of it as a series of “pretty big black holes.” We don’t know, for example, how someone comes by an attraction for prepubescent children in the first place. The research we do have, and this is derived from very small sample sizes, suggests that those attracted to kids tend to be shorter, left-handed, and have a lower IQ than the broader population. Another study found that being knocked unconscious before the age of 13 might be a factor. This may sound like quackery, but it points toward biological causation. In other words, it’s likely that pedophiles are born this way.

Things are a little clearer when it comes to the numbers. Studies suggest that up to 9 percent of men have fantasized about having sex with a prepubescent child, and 3 percent of all men have gone on to sexually offend. (Not all of them would meet the diagnostic criteria for pedophilia. The latter figure includes situational offenders, men who abuse children if the opportunity arises but who otherwise have no pre-existing attraction to kids.) Michael Seto, director of the University of Ottawa’s Forensic Research Unit and associate editor of Sexual Abuse: A Journal of Research and Treatment, believes that the prevalence of male pedophiles sits closer to 1 percent of the population, which would equate to at least 1.2 million in the U.S. alone. (Female pedophiles exist, but in smaller numbers.)

Does not  quantify a person that has 1 or more fantasy as a pedofile-  but the 3% that acted obviously are

is this 1 example in an article supposed to indicate they can t get counseling like anyone else?  not very convincing- 



Dunban67 said:

Does not  quantify a person that has 1 or more fantasy as a pedofile-  but the 3% that acted obviously are

is this 1 example in an article supposed to indicate they can t get counseling like anyone else?  not very convincing- 

Sure, but there were 6% (or a portion of said 6 %) of the male population who are and didn't act. You are arguing that 100% or near 100% of pedophiles have abused a child and were asked to be proven wrong. 

Also the article cites a psychiatrist who has interviewed dozens of teenage pedophiles, so no - it isn't just one case. The kid in the article also started a mutual help group via the internet. The article even mentions a former victim of sex-abuse helping "Adam" keep away from child porn for months, so that she can help him go on the right path.