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Forums - Sony - Should we be worried about SOE being sold?

torok said:
joeorc said:


Cruise speed? Do you see other companies spending that kind of cash to increase that fabric production level, let alone overcome the yield problems that come along with it, never mind the 3 to 6 times the investment costs to establish the production silicon as a 3D stacked TSV ?

This is not what many think you can just dump a ton of money in and boom you catch up. It takes many years of development and a hell of a lot of engineers to boot.

Its not crguise control that's for sure in my opinion..its not just production capacity but also method of production and the time it took to develop such methods.


Calm down and read what I wrote, man. They would be in cruise speed IF they weren't ramping up production. They are increasing their capacity because they know they will need it. They are doing the right thing.

My point is, if Apple said "we need 50M sensors thie years" and Sony answered "Sorry, we can give you just 35M", do you think Apple would just sell 15M less sensors and be OK with that? Sony wants to be sure that if Apple asks 50M and ends up needing 60M, they will provide everyone on schedule. You don't expend 1B on something if you aren't needing it.

It's not like "boom" someone catches up with them. But not investing now would create an opening. In the 90s they left an opening in the electronics market for Samsung and LG. It started with a tiny opening and now Sony has all these financial problems because of that. So about CMOS, they aren't willing to let any opening and are putting their money there to make sure it won't happen.


While I get what you are saying , my point was there is an opening anytime any company wants to jump in. The problem is 3D stacked TSV is not something you can just jump right into..so to speak, the problem is you need these type of chips because consumer's want the thin phones and tablets and its rare you see a brick of a phone being the major.

I think if what you stated was Apple would go somewhere else if Sony could not provide it, where would they in fact go?

Take a look at this:

http://www.analog-eetimes.com/en/european-3d-tsv-summit-to-add-business-focus.html?cmp_id=7&news_id=222906726

After decades of development its just now getting to this point!

Not just in one component all, and not every company can do it all that's why if you notice where each company went. Its not that Apple could go somewhere else, it is that they would not go anywhere else, because of the design of these sensor's are the kind they need, so unless another company has had the decades of building this type of method of production they cannot go anywhere else.

The point of it is, Apple needs this just as much as Sony needs to sell it to applel It really has nothing to do with keeping comp. Out because there is no other company that has designed their image cmos sensors that fits Apple's requirements.

But if Sony could not keep up production Apple would not be happy along with Samsung, so on that point you are correct Sony wants to keep up with as much demand as they can. But due to the complexity of the chip its not always going to net the highest yields all the time..lol



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

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joeorc said:
Nem said:


Yeah... i edited the other post. You can't expect people to know developers face's. Its not the movies or TV. They dont get screen time.

Sorry, your right..i was using the pic for comic effect, that was Sony's own Yoshida, so it looks  like he has his arms around Cage's waist and wispering something to cage..LOL

Just a funny angle the way the pic was taken...


Now i get it... See i wasnt even sure if you were kidding and that wasnt Cage.

Yeah... Shu had jet lag i heard. Still funny though.



One or two saying sony could potentially make more in future if they held onto them. I'd say it would be a very long time before they made a profit equal to the sale of this. Plus they will still make money from the games released on ps4 in future. I highly doubt they would recoup the money from this sale anything soon especially when the studio is so costly to run. You need to look at the bigger picture.



torok said:
Shiken said:
Depends on two things...how much they sold for and why they sold it. SOE has been dead weight to Playstation for a while and they are past their prime. If they use that money to form a new first party studio or two or invested in another PROFITABLE division, this is a good thing. However if they waste it on a failing division such as TVs or Phones, they are only prolonging the inevitable.

One thing is for certain though, I will be watching Sony very closely for the next year or so.

 

They announced a 890M investment to ramp up the production of camera sensors. There goes the money!


If you look at history though, that is a profitable area to invest the money because they are used by many different manufacturers and brands, not just Sony.  This could actually be a smart move for Sony as a parent company as long as they don't overestimate the demand.  Only time will tell though.



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Shiken said:


If you look at history though, that is a profitable area to invest the money because they are used by many different manufacturers and brands, not just Sony.  This could actually be a smart move for Sony as a parent company as long as they don't overestimate the demand.  Only time will tell though.


Yes, it is a smart move. They provide sensors for the top selling smart devices in the world, so they have to keep up with the demand. SOE was just a strange and out-of-place component while their sensor business trives.



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torok said:
Shiken said:


If you look at history though, that is a profitable area to invest the money because they are used by many different manufacturers and brands, not just Sony.  This could actually be a smart move for Sony as a parent company as long as they don't overestimate the demand.  Only time will tell though.


Yes, it is a smart move. They provide sensors for the top selling smart devices in the world, so they have to keep up with the demand. SOE was just a strange and out-of-place component while their sensor business trives.


I really do not think it WS such out of place, when Sony is cutting operational expenses. Like for example, in that very same press release, Sony is going to be closing down the Toshiba chip production plant they bought off of Toshiba a few years back. And as the report about john stating SOE has had a few rough years and that the 3 largest IP licence iP's ,Sony paid like starwars and DCUO for example did not generate as much profit as they would have liked. Sony even laid off people in two studios of SOE so selling it off would be better than the people getting laid off, don't you think?

I think they were looking to trim the fat so to speak of, they held out as long as they may have decided was reasonable. I think it had to do alot with what was a good fit for the Playstation platform as to continue to split further resource with Pc development while not really giving any real exclusive benefit to playstation platforms. 

When the Games in Question are on Pc's that pretty much means in this case the keys open anyway. That by very blunt terms means its multi-platform by core terms its already on non playstation hardware anyway already



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

joeorc said:


I really do not think it WS such out of place, when Sony is cutting operational expenses. Like for example, in that very same press release, Sony is going to be closing down the Toshiba chip production plant they bought off of Toshiba a few years back. And as the report about john stating SOE has had a few rough years and that the 3 largest IP licence iP's ,Sony paid like starwars and DCUO for example did not generate as much profit as they would have liked. Sony even laid off people in two studios of SOE so selling it off would be better than the people getting laid off, don't you think?

I think they were looking to trim the fat so to speak of, they held out as long as they may have decided was reasonable. I think it had to do alot with what was a good fit for the Playstation platform as to continue to split further resource with Pc development while not really giving any real exclusive benefit to playstation platforms. 

When the Games in Question are on Pc's that pretty much means in this case the keys open anyway. That by very blunt terms means its multi-platform by core terms its already on non playstation hardware anyway already


It was always weird to see Sony releasing games on PC first and then, maybe, on PS.



Community wise, yea, we should be worried. SOE had cross platform play, whether it be PS3 + PS4, PS3 + PC, or PS4 + PC. Xbox doesn't allow that. So, now they'll have to build their games based on 0 community interaction, because Xbox has to be taken into consideration.

Yea, yea, I know, Fable Legends. But that's a wait and see approach. Because the first time MS allowed cross play (Shadowrun) they didn't try to make things work, they quickly turned their backs to it. We don't know what they'll do with FL, so that's a bad precedent



joeorc said:
VanceIX said:

Seeing as that Sony has been losing more and more money every year, and still retains some of their worst qualities that resulted in this crisis, and has been forced to spin/sell off many divisions including important ones like VAIO and Bravia, yes, I think that the Sony heads have no fricken clue what they are doing. The arrogance of their execs and inability to adjust to the market has always hurt them, and continues to. There has been some change, but at this point it's too little too late for the most part. I'm not saying this as a Sony hater, I love Sony with all my heart but the higher ups in most of their divisions have been plain incompetent at many times throughout the years.

If you wish to turn a blind eye to that, and pretend that what I'm saying has no meaning, good on you. Sony'll just continue to hemmorage money while you rave about the competence of their higher ups.


Take a look at this:

http://anime.astronerdboy.com/2011/06/mr-baseball-movie-of-japanese-culture.html#.VNCHIJ_0Dcd

Its very easy to point from a west centric point of view this is the way it needs to be.

Its very easy to keep pointing that out.

The problem is in japan, this may only be the way it can be right now.

Social limitation on how a company is ran may put problems in the way like taking care of the employed unless you can offer a solution to a problem with these restrictions in place and trying to change those restrictions you have. To work with in may be not only problematic, but also slow going to enact change of those very same restrictions.

I understand what you are saying, but the entire point is that Sony is no longer exclusively a Japanese company. They are a world-wide company, and so they need to get their act together world wide. Japan is not anywhere near as important to them in terms of entertainment as Europe and North America are. If they can't adjust to the forign market, this stuff happens.

Sony is no longer the giant in the room. If they want to make a profit, they either need to do a 180 in terms of marketing and stop trying to be the "luxury" brand of the tech world, or if they want to rely heavily on entertainment profits (as you suggested), they need to be much more careful in terms of what movies they make, and they would have to leave the power war with Microsoft with the consoles and go back to developing cheaper hardware that has a higher profit ceiling, thus allowing you to make less intensive games as well and make more profit on those too. Thats the only way you make a sustaining profit on console gaming right now, and Nintendo is getting a lot of flak for doing just that.



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