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Forums - Nintendo - Why Nintendo should stay first party

thx1139 on 03 December 2014
Dusk said:


I find that rather funny. Cause, lets be honest, unless things change, Sony is going to go out of business and MS is going to pull out of gaming lol. Nintendo keeps making profits on their consoles even though they are selling less, MS has never stated they have ever made a profit from the Xbox division and Sony has been in dire straights for the last decade and is using the PS brand as a life preserver. With that, if either or both MS and Sony leave, many third parties are likely going to have to take extreme actions to change their business models or go belly up. 


Oh please check your information.  MS divisions which contain the Xbox (they have changed over the years) have all been profitable for years now.  Maybe, but I stopped paying attention years ago, the losses from the Xbox and the first couple years of the Xbox 360 havent been recouped yet.  Other than that the Xbox is a profitable part of MS business.  Just ready the Financial Reports put out each and every quarter and you can see this.   Last Quarter Consumer and Gaming Hardware had profit of $479 million. Devices and Consumer Other which is where video game software is located made a profit of $312 million.



Its libraries that sell systems not a single game.

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Cream147 on 03 December 2014
thx1139 said:
Cream147 said:
Why Nintendo should stay first party? From a former Sega and especially Sonic fan, this is pretty obvious. We can trace the decline of Sega as a publisher of good games back to when they quit the hardware business and became third party. We can trace the exact game where Sonic started going off the rails to the first main non-remake Sonic game developed for non-Sega consoles i.e. Sonic Heroes. If Nintendo go the same way it will be far more tragic, as they have a number of franchises whose quality it would be awful to see compromised.

It's not just coincidence this, either. First party games are so often superior, and there are many reasons to this. Focus on optimisation for a single console, having cooperation between software developers and hardware developers for a fuller understanding of the hardware, a company having more to lose if they're developing games to try and sell their own console etc. etc.

And that's not to mention the fact that Nintendo are the only ones making interesting hardware, rather than glorified PCs. Take them out and that's pretty much it for me and gaming. I'll become a retro gamer, with a small amount of PC gaming on the side. Sony and Microsoft offer me nothing.

I would say your history on Sega decline is a little off.  The decline of Sega started with a failed console. The Saturn failed and then Sega tried hardware again with the Dreamcast, but even before it launched it was a very hard sell against the PS2 which was still a year off.  So you rapidly see Nintendo speeding down this same path.  Will Nintendo have another failed console and put themselves in a path where becoming a 3rd party goes from a smart business decision to a required act of desparation.

I havent seen one reason in this thread that is a real reason why Nintendo should stay 1st party. The closest is that they dont have the software development discipline to make quality software for more than 1 platform.   The claim is that unless they stay 1st party they would be in danger of making crappy software (as if Nintendo hasnt made crappy software in the past).

I don't mean financial decline. We're gamers right? Not business investors. Sure, the Saturn was a backwards step in quality, but the Dreamcast was a great console, even if it didn't sell well. From the moment Sega went third party, that's when the quality of their games took an absolute turn for the worst - as best illustrated best by the Sonic series.

And no one's denying that Nintendo have published bad software, but the general quality of their software and in particular their core franchises is exceptional. The Zelda franchise has I believe 17 main entries and every single one of them is a good game. That's what you call pedigree. Year on year they release more quality games than any other publisher - it would be a really interesting argument to see someone deny that. That quality would end if they went third party, and THAT is why they must stay first party.

As I said before, if Nintendo leave the hardware business, then I'll have bought my last console, at least until something actually interesting comes along.



thx1139 on 03 December 2014
Cream147 said:
thx1139 said:

I would say your history on Sega decline is a little off.  The decline of Sega started with a failed console. The Saturn failed and then Sega tried hardware again with the Dreamcast, but even before it launched it was a very hard sell against the PS2 which was still a year off.  So you rapidly see Nintendo speeding down this same path.  Will Nintendo have another failed console and put themselves in a path where becoming a 3rd party goes from a smart business decision to a required act of desparation.

I havent seen one reason in this thread that is a real reason why Nintendo should stay 1st party. The closest is that they dont have the software development discipline to make quality software for more than 1 platform.   The claim is that unless they stay 1st party they would be in danger of making crappy software (as if Nintendo hasnt made crappy software in the past).

I don't mean financial decline. We're gamers right? Not business investors. Sure, the Saturn was a backwards step in quality, but the Dreamcast was a great console, even if it didn't sell well. From the moment Sega went third party, that's when the quality of their games took an absolute turn for the worst - as best illustrated best by the Sonic series.

And no one's denying that Nintendo have published bad software, but the general quality of their software and in particular their core franchises is exceptional. The Zelda franchise has I believe 17 main entries and every single one of them is a good game. That's what you call pedigree. Year on year they release more quality games than any other publisher - it would be a really interesting argument to see someone deny that. That quality would end if they went third party, and THAT is why they must stay first party.

As I said before, if Nintendo leave the hardware business, then I'll have bought my last console, at least until something actually interesting comes along.

Financial decline lead to quality decline.  If you believe that Nintendo moving to 3rd pary means the end of the quality then you really dont have much faith in Nintendo.  I believe that actually if they could concentrate on software and not software to sell hardware then they quality would be better. If they could build software for systems that have more capabilities then they could build even better software.  They could put out less software to simply put out software that shows that the system has games and really concenctrate on creating great software.



Its libraries that sell systems not a single game.

Tachikoma on 03 December 2014

1) My disk read error Wii says otherwise, and it was quite a widespread issue, as were ejection errors on the Wii, as are sound problems on the GB, and battery problems on old GB games, and rear issues with virtually all NES consoles (even when they werent retro), instability and hardware issues come with taking more advanced hardware, when the 360 and ps3 released they had very new hardware at the time - the wiiu released basically 6 years later with comparatively powered hardware, so its less likely to break, nintendo has almost always gone with much lesser powered than the standard of the time for each release, which benefits the stability.
With that in mind though, there are still people on their first ps3/360 that havent had any issues.

2) Do not get me, or Tamron started on this point, I will simply leave it at this, they "popularized" most of those, they were not the first for most of them.

3) Releasing new colors / special editions / multiple versions of the same hardware in different models / locking out games in the same generation for newer hardware (dsi / n3ds), releasing more REQUIRED addon peripherals for games than all of the other manufacturers combined all say otherwise, you take a dig at xbox not havng recharcable batteries and for charging for play and charge kits yet completely ignore the fact that the wiiu tablet comes with an asthmatic battery and space for the seperately sold larger battery, they could have just included this battery from the beginning.
Then you go off on one about vita memory sticks being proof of nintendo not penny pinching? tell me, if you buy a game for the 3DS that is also available for the WiiU, not even just retail games, but virtual console games too, why do you need to buy that same game again for the WiiU in order to play it, even if both consoles are linked to the same NID?, If i buy a game on PS3 thats available on PS4/Vita/PSP, I can play that game on all of those systems too, without having to buy it again.

4) This is entirely down to the changes in hardware, you cant change an entire architecture and keep backwares compatibility without including the old hardware to run it natively, the GC, Wii and WiiU are all ibm powerpc, so keeping support for older generations isnt hard.
At the same time, we are barely a year in to the XBO/PS4 lifespan, they could both end up adding software emulation support for older games at some point in their lifetime.

5) Selling more software would comprimise there software?



forest-spirit on 04 December 2014

Nintendo should stay 1st party because once they stop making consoles they'll also start abandoning the console industry as a whole. Their portable division would be moved to mobiles immediately because they'd never choose the Vita over mobile platforms or a portable system of their own. They'd probably make a few games for home consoles but sooner or later those efforts would be moved to mobiles as well.

Without a system of their own Nintendo would not support games such as Wonderful 101, Bayonetta or Devil's Third. No need to waste money on games that won't bring good profits. Expect even more Mario because money.


Believing that Nintendo would become a huge supporter of PS4 and Xbone is nice and all but Nintendo taking that route is about as likely as them turning the Wii U situation around and having it become a 100m seller. Pursuing the old Wii/DS audiences would be a much more attractive alternative.

 

I want them to stay in the console business and they'll only have a good reason for doing so while they have systems of their own to support, thus I want them to stay first party.



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Dusk on 04 December 2014
generic-user-1 said:
Dusk said:
generic-user-1 said:
Dusk said:
prayformojo said:
If they could retain the quality they have and go PS exclusive or a second party to them, then I'd be down. I grew up with Nintendo and own every console they've made but lets be honest, unless things change, they're going to go out of business unless they put their games on someone else hardware. Their sales have been declining every single console they release sans the Wii, which sold to a completely different demograph... one which left the party years ago.


I find that rather funny. Cause, lets be honest, unless things change, Sony is going to go out of business and MS is going to pull out of gaming lol. Nintendo keeps making profits on their consoles even though they are selling less, MS has never stated they have ever made a profit from the Xbox division and Sony has been in dire straights for the last decade and is using the PS brand as a life preserver. With that, if either or both MS and Sony leave, many third parties are likely going to have to take extreme actions to change their business models or go belly up. 

pc gaming will take over with steam os. u can have a good working small gaming pc for 6-700$ with much lower game prices and free online

SteamOS is not all it's cracked up to be. The vast majority of games still don't support Linux and that is what SteamOS is, must of the support is coming from indies, most of the big games still only support Windows. I do think PC gaming is a great way to go without doubt, but it has little to offer on the side of the great exclusives offered by any of the big 3. Unfortunately PC gaming is still highly plagued by piracy and that doesn't help any of the developers or publishers, so again, belly up. 

 

steam os is growing an growing, but if it fails, windows isnt that bad.

and pc exclusives are the best!  there are genres that are pc exclusiv, and there is so much modding.

and piracy is ust a problem if the game is bad.

Paradox Interactive games are  the easy to pirate, mostly single player(m is fun, but the most people dont have enough nerd friend or time to play a 40h match), no copy protection at all(you can play mp with pirated games), small size. but they are saleing more and more with every new game, and they are saleing alot of dlc(some good, some overpriced bullshit), and that even with great modsupport an shittons of mods. 

There have been some great PC exclusives without doubt, but lately they are far more rare. As I said, in comparison to the big 3, there is little to offer. 

Really??? No. Piracy is an issue with every game on PC. That is why almost every publisher has some form of log on system like Origin, Uplay, Steam and hundreds of other forms of DRM. They are there because it's a necessity unfortunately. 



Gotta figure out how to set these up lol.

nosound_warmup on 04 December 2014
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

3. They don't try to squeeze every penny out of your wallet

 

They don't include a charger for the 3DS XL. For a battery operated electronics device! If anyone but Nintendo had done this, there would have been riots.