By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming - Does MS really deserve praise for "listening" to consumers ??

companies make mistakes (sony and Nintendo aren't innocent of this either- I can list the examples, but I think you all know what I'm referring to). they see their mistakes and correct them. Most companies these days, after making bad choices, just stick with it until the end. Microsoft corrected theirs pretty early on. They aren't perfect and no other company is either.



Around the Network
yvanjean said:
oniyide said:
yvanjean said:
Viltgance said:

Ok so lately everyone has been jumping on the new bandwagon of giving Microsoft praise for listening to the consumer.   But do they really deserve any praise at all?  I can already see the hate coming from a mile away but I personally don't think they do.  In reality, when a company(or a human being) has their back against the wall they will do whatever it takes to get out of the situation.  Whether it be,  kiss ass, lie, cheat, steal, bribe, suck hole, toss money around....pretty much anything goes.

Basically the only viable option for MS to do was to try and repair their broken image and to kiss consumers asses a whole lot and to shower them with gifts and make it look like they care about the little guys.

You be the judge

When Microsoft first announce the Xbox one people din't like the DRM and always online but there was some interesting features like familly share and digital library that is not tied to your consoles that would of been cool. They did well to go back to what consumers wanted but family share and digital library had to be remove for now.

Sony react to the microsoft conference and pulled the PS4 eye from the system, lowered the price and DRM was dropped and removed with a day one update from the PS4. They simply benefited from annoucing their console after Microsoft and remove anything that could create a backlash. 

I think any gamer that wants great game and new IP are crazy for not supporting DRM. They don't have enough forseight to see the damage that resale of used games is doing to the industry and the end result is we get less content. We will see less and less AAA new IP.

 

 

or these companies could. I dont know manage their budgets. Crazy i know!

With an AAA budget you can make a game with multiplayer and 30+ hour’s gameplay that people will not resale right away.

With a limited budget you might only be able to make a great single player experience that last less 10 hours. Limited budget also mean limited marketing and this would result in lower first week sales.... by week 2 this game will still have the same competition from all the AAA games, indie and other video game on the market. But, they are also being undercut by their own game which is selling for cheaper used. From week 3-5 there might be a buzz about the game great single player but people are buying used version from the initial buyer or slightly discount used copies from used game store or major retailer like best buy and future shop. By week 5 the game might have been resold and enjoyed by more than 5 gamer. But, the retailer only got a cut of the initial sale. This game will flop due to lack of sales and we never see a sequel to a great single player game.

 

That's why we now see the rise of indie games, which tend to be much smaller project and with a very limited budget. Indie scene is very volatile and we see so many failures and cancelled project. On top of this the Major AAA companies are making their own version of indie games backed with marketing budget. AAA companies are now taking away revenues out of the indie scene; they see this as an untapped opportunity. If this trend continues more and more start up and indie games will also fail. All we're left is with company like EA, Activision, Ubisoft, etc. Were overzealous ideas will be shut down because they don't see the profit in it!

Funny Sony doesnt seem to have a problem selling their Uncharted series and they have MP to boot and the didnt spend a ton. For every one series that fail (darksiders) we can find one that was successful. Lets not make excuses for these companies frivious spending. Funny you mention Ubi, they MUST be making money on AC otherwise why even make the game annual? Hell they are doing two this year.



oniyide said:

Funny Sony doesnt seem to have a problem selling their Uncharted series and they have MP to boot and the didnt spend a ton. For every one series that fail (darksiders) we can find one that was successful. Lets not make excuses for these companies frivious spending. Funny you mention Ubi, they MUST be making money on AC otherwise why even make the game annual? Hell they are doing two this year.


Are you kidding me right now?? Uncharted series is AAA games and budgets.... Uncharted 3 cost more then 25 million to develop and there no figure on how much was spent in Marketing.  



yvanjean said:
oniyide said:

Funny Sony doesnt seem to have a problem selling their Uncharted series and they have MP to boot and the didnt spend a ton. For every one series that fail (darksiders) we can find one that was successful. Lets not make excuses for these companies frivious spending. Funny you mention Ubi, they MUST be making money on AC otherwise why even make the game annual? Hell they are doing two this year.


Are you kidding me right now?? Uncharted series is AAA games and budgets.... Uncharted 3 cost more then 25 million to develop and there no figure on how much was spent in Marketing.  

you have link to that? where is your proof it cost taht much? and even if it did Sony made money on the game. So my originally point still stands. IF they know how to budget their money they would be fine.

Edit: matter of fact ill do you one better. lets say your number is right. Darksiders 2 cost 50million to make. Twice as much as Uncharted 3. Now what in the hell could be done in that game that they needed 50million to make it. There is no MP its just a straight shoot SP affair. Uncharted 3 didnt cost nearly as much and has MP better visuals hell I would argue it is the better game. So again, BUDGET your money correctly. THQ didnt and look what happened.



oniyide said:
IamAwsome said:

They do make games (Sunset Overdrive, Project Spark, Quantum Break, Scalebound, etc.). Just because they don't make 99 new IPs in a generation doesn't mean they don't make games. 

They put DRM on the console becuase most publishers were trying to combat used games. EA, Ubisoft, Activision, Square Enix, and Sony ALL had online passes at some point. Capcom had the whole RE: Mercenaries 3D debacle. Microsoft didn't put DRM on the XB1 for themselves, they did it because it appeared that the industry was moving in that direction for better or worse. Heck, Sony filed a patent that had to do with DRM, so they may have been planning something as well.  The E3 2013 backlash stopped that in it's tracks. 


@ bolded 1 But imagine how much MORE they could make without spending on nonsense like timed exclusivity that doesnt really benefit anyone except whatever publisher they are giving money too. Cause right now their actual 1st party output doesnt even beging to match that of Sony or Ninty. Not saying it has too but MS isnt even close.

@ bolded 2 online passes and DRM arent the same thing so lets not even act like they are. Sure i needed a coded to play the online mode of Uncharted 3 but my entire console didnt break without it and i could still play the game. 

@bolded 3 i agree that they didnt put it in for themselves but they sure as hell didnt do it because they thought thay was the direction the industry was going, if that is true then they truly had stupid people running the company cause no one in their right mind was going to accept their whole DRM policy, and they were warned and the other two didnt do it.  Sony files patents all the time. So what? it means very little. We cant say for sure but we can def say so for MS. e3 thats my point it should not have even gotten THAT far. They should have never gone through with it after rumors appeared and people were like "you better not" or at the very least should have dropped it after the intial reveal. Naw they stubbornly waited till after e3 and PS4 full reveal to change tune.

Sorry for the late reply, but anyway...

They're just trying to be competitive. Timed exclusivity/DLC/marketing; give people a reason to buy the console however I do agree that they overspend. Microsoft knows they need more 1st party games, why do you think they've opened new studios? 

Online passes and DRM aren't really the same thing, but they represent the same initiative: Kill used games

No one in their right mind? Developers certainly did. Gamers didn't. AFAIK the PS4 rumors didn't go either way, even though publishers wanted DRM on both consoles. Sony may/may not have been planning anything, but the patent certainly made it LOOK like they were. Sony played the cards close to the chest, and it paid off. Like I said, pubishers pushed for DRM, and this is part of the reason MS came out in full force at E3 (and why EA in particular was all over the XB1). Microsoft probably would have pulled a 180 long before E3 if there was concrete evidence that Sony wasn't going to do it, but there wasn't, and they got burned. I wouldn't call that stubborn. 



Around the Network
IamAwsome said:
oniyide said:
IamAwsome said:

They do make games (Sunset Overdrive, Project Spark, Quantum Break, Scalebound, etc.). Just because they don't make 99 new IPs in a generation doesn't mean they don't make games. 

They put DRM on the console becuase most publishers were trying to combat used games. EA, Ubisoft, Activision, Square Enix, and Sony ALL had online passes at some point. Capcom had the whole RE: Mercenaries 3D debacle. Microsoft didn't put DRM on the XB1 for themselves, they did it because it appeared that the industry was moving in that direction for better or worse. Heck, Sony filed a patent that had to do with DRM, so they may have been planning something as well.  The E3 2013 backlash stopped that in it's tracks. 


@ bolded 1 But imagine how much MORE they could make without spending on nonsense like timed exclusivity that doesnt really benefit anyone except whatever publisher they are giving money too. Cause right now their actual 1st party output doesnt even beging to match that of Sony or Ninty. Not saying it has too but MS isnt even close.

@ bolded 2 online passes and DRM arent the same thing so lets not even act like they are. Sure i needed a coded to play the online mode of Uncharted 3 but my entire console didnt break without it and i could still play the game. 

@bolded 3 i agree that they didnt put it in for themselves but they sure as hell didnt do it because they thought thay was the direction the industry was going, if that is true then they truly had stupid people running the company cause no one in their right mind was going to accept their whole DRM policy, and they were warned and the other two didnt do it.  Sony files patents all the time. So what? it means very little. We cant say for sure but we can def say so for MS. e3 thats my point it should not have even gotten THAT far. They should have never gone through with it after rumors appeared and people were like "you better not" or at the very least should have dropped it after the intial reveal. Naw they stubbornly waited till after e3 and PS4 full reveal to change tune.

Sorry for the late reply, but anyway...

They're just trying to be competitive. Timed exclusivity/DLC/marketing; give people a reason to buy the console however I do agree that they overspend. Microsoft knows they need more 1st party games, why do you think they've opened new studios? 

Online passes and DRM aren't really the same thing, but they represent the same initiative: Kill used games

No one in their right mind? Developers certainly did. Gamers didn't. AFAIK the PS4 rumors didn't go either way, even though publishers wanted DRM on both consoles. Sony may/may not have been planning anything, but the patent certainly made it LOOK like they were. Sony played the cards close to the chest, and it paid off. Like I said, pubishers pushed for DRM, and this is part of the reason MS came out in full force at E3 (and why EA in particular was all over the XB1). Microsoft probably would have pulled a 180 long before E3 if there was concrete evidence that Sony wasn't going to do it, but there wasn't, and they got burned. I wouldn't call that stubborn. 

I have not issue with them being competitive, but this isnt the way. IMHO it reeks of laziness, take that money and invest in your own studios, get real exclusives. Not crap that we know will show up later on another system im probably a better way. Sony did that, Ninty has been doing that.

sure, but one is more extreme than the other.

I was talking strictly gamers so you agree. Sony is the jack of all trades, they put the patent there just in case they would NEED to use it. We cant really know for sure if they ever WANTED to. SOme publishers pushed for DRM. Ok you do make a good point, they probably would have did a 180 early if they knew what SOny was doing, but then that goes back to my initial point. THey shouldnt be concerned with SOny in the first place they should have been listening to THERE consumers in the first place. They didnt, and they were made to look stupid. And there was plenty of evidence that people did not want that DRM xbone, so yes they were still being a bit stubborn. But maybe EA was talking crap in there ear the entire time. I almost feel bad.