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Forums - Sony Discussion - Looks like Sony is busted in Japan.

padib said:
Tamron said:

Because you could have just reported it and left it at that, instead you went into a tirade about the implacations, listed a range of users you would love to ban then took every non-agreement comment since then as a personal attack.

Now please, get back on topic.

I HAVE been on topic.

As I said, I think that Sony is misrepresenting the actual situation in Japan. I admit I haven't been able to find the press conference (could someone post the link please?), but so far from what I understand Sony is using these numbers and presenting an improper reality, that their presence is strong in Japan, which I hope you realize is absolutely false.


It is false but the entire point of the discussion has been that there's a poignant difference between misrepresentation- which leads to false impressions- and lying, which is stating false information outright. What they stated at the conference IS true. Any exterior assumptions it might lead one to believe, however, is false, but the key here is Sony avoided CLAIMING they were winning Lifetime sales; they carefully crafted a scenario where they held the advantage, and pushed that. It's something that every company does, Nintendo included, whether it's about sales, product advertisment, etc.

To put it another way. If Nintendo came out and talked about how their Wii U sales are significantly (edit: tired, 'consistently' probably fits better given the sales of both consoles right now are small enough to keep any massive gaps from forming,) outpacing the PS4 in Japan, is it a lie? No, absolutely not. And it makes the prospects of the console sound pretty darn bright. Same with the big, six hundred percent sales boost in the U.K. But it is neglecting to outright state the fact that they've gotten their butts kicked in Europe and U.S., (something a company will rarely, if ever, admit to without being asked directly,) leading to the competition blasting past them globally, despite a sizable head start. So by extension, they'd be trying to pump up their sales discussions- which, really, they only CAN do by exclusively mentioning Japan since the only other feather in their cap seems to be that they're edging out the Xbox One a little bit the last couple of months- by failing to outright state the many negatives of their situation.

Companies find the positives, present them to the customers, and sort of cough when it comes to the negatives. They do it because no company is going to come out and say; "Yeeeeah, we're getting our ass kicked. Like, LOTS."



Zanten, Doer Of The Things

Unless He Forgets In Which Case Zanten, Forgetter Of The Things

Or He Procrascinates, In Which Case Zanten, Doer Of The Things Later

Or It Involves Moving Furniture, in Which Case Zanten, F*** You.

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padib said:
Nicklesbe said:

I'm sorry but no I don't mean to argue but the article is far more offensive. Lets go back to your example about a fraudulent study that misrepresented data and ignored fact and ultimatly  claimed black people had less intelligence. Who is more offensive, the ignorant guy that made a a bad joke based on the fraudulent information, or the guy who made the study in the first place? 

I hope you can see the distinction there. One person is clearly making an ignorant assumption based on false and negative propaganda and makes a bad joke referencing it. The other in this case the author of that article with an ulterior motive is intentionally misrepresenting/ignoring facts in order to create negative propaganda and tries to pass it off as fact to influence others. Evil propaganda creator > ignorant victem of evil propaganda.

I said minus the clarification. By that I meant had no clarification on the joke been given, I would judge the offensive statement as worse than an insignificant article misrepresenting a few corporate numbers.

Also Evil propaganda creator of prejudicial content >>> Evil propaganda creator of biased business content.

That's not true tho. What you fail to realize is that article is purely "prejudicial content". Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo are corporations but they have cultivated their own cultures especially with their most dedicated fans which can be seen in these forums every single day. I can't speak for the rest of the world but in the US for wrong or for right corporations are treated mostly as people and its fact that corporations are made up of people. So they even have another culture within the company itself. That article is pure prejudice against that culture and the people in it because he making up complete BS and misrepresenting facts in order to discredit and do harm to that culture and the people in that culture. It would be just as offensive if a fanboy from MS or Sony wrote an article that used lies in order to try and attack Nintendo and it would be no different if a white supremacist published an article using lies to attack Muslims, Asians, Indians or any other culture or group of people. It's not just business bias the author is misrepresenting information and blatantly lying in order to attack the dignity and integrity of a culture and an entire group of people. Yes it is a sub culture within a corporation but it doesn't change the fact that it is prejudice pure and simple.



http://www.youtube.com/v/AoOOpLpcF28 http://www.youtube.com/v/CphFZGH5030

All Hail the Jester King. The King is back, and I am still a dirty girl prof ;)

Meh, this is just a play on words. They're just using the current situation to market their product. Regardless with this huge outpouring of Japanese gamer oriented titles, the PS4 is going to pick up speed, and this 78% marketshare will potentially grow. All I know is their conference has me excited, and it wasn't even aimed at me. The tidal wave of Playstation titles is upon us!



0331 Happiness is a belt-fed weapon

Just for clarification, even if you include handhelds, you get the following:

Totals for ALL consoles in 2014
Sony : 1,805,559
Nintendo : 1,539,801
Microsoft : 6808
Total console total : 3,352,168

Totals breakdown:
WiiU sold in Japan during 2014 - 314,468
Wii sold in Japan during 2014 - 5332
PS4 sold in Japan during 2014 - 670,811
PS3 sold in Japan during 2014 - 308,308
Vita sold in Japan during 2014 - 749,899
PSP sold in Japan during 2014 - 76,541
3DS sold in Japan during 2014 - 1,220,001
360 sold in Japan during 2014 - 6808

Marketshare according to VGchartz data:
Sony : 54.5%
Nintendo : 45.3%
Microsoft : 0.2%



padib said:
Tamron said:
Just for clarification, even if you include handhelds, you get the following:

Totals for ALL consoles in 2014
Sony : 1,805,559
Nintendo : 1,539,801
Microsoft : 6808
Total console total : 3,352,168

Totals breakdown:
WiiU sold in Japan during 2014 - 314,468
Wii sold in Japan during 2014 - 5332
PS4 sold in Japan during 2014 - 670,811
PS3 sold in Japan during 2014 - 308,308
Vita sold in Japan during 2014 - 749,899
PSP sold in Japan during 2014 - 76,541
3DS sold in Japan during 2014 - 1,220,001
360 sold in Japan during 2014 - 6808

Marketshare according to VGchartz data:
Sony : 54.5%
Nintendo : 45.3%
Microsoft : 0.2%

It is still a misleading figure to promote the idea that Sony's presence in Japan is strong. The PS3 is on the way out, and people are buying the 3DS. We don't know what they will choose between the PS4 and the WiiU but odds are it is the U because Sony is doing barely anything to promote japanese content for the PS4. It is a western-centric console.

how is it misleading?, I'm getting this awfuly strong feeling that you are angry that Sony is ahead on marketshare for the timeframe they stated, to be honest.
You griped that the data wasn't accurate because it didn't include handhelds, and now i updated the same timeframe data WITH handhelds, you're shrugging it off because it, from the looks of things, didn't turn the result you assumed it would.

padib said:

Sony is doing barely anything to promote japanese content for the PS4. It is a western-centric console.

Let me just give you back one of your own lines on this one.

padib said:

Keep telling yourself the lies you want to hear.



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padib said:
Tamron said:
Just for clarification, even if you include handhelds, you get the following:

Totals for ALL consoles in 2014
Sony : 1,805,559
Nintendo : 1,539,801
Microsoft : 6808
Total console total : 3,352,168

Totals breakdown:
WiiU sold in Japan during 2014 - 314,468
Wii sold in Japan during 2014 - 5332
PS4 sold in Japan during 2014 - 670,811
PS3 sold in Japan during 2014 - 308,308
Vita sold in Japan during 2014 - 749,899
PSP sold in Japan during 2014 - 76,541
3DS sold in Japan during 2014 - 1,220,001
360 sold in Japan during 2014 - 6808

Marketshare according to VGchartz data:
Sony : 54.5%
Nintendo : 45.3%
Microsoft : 0.2%

It is still a misleading figure to promote the idea that Sony's presence in Japan is strong. The PS3 is on the way out, and people are buying the 3DS. We don't know what they will choose between the PS4 and the WiiU but odds are it is the U because Sony is doing barely anything to promote japanese content for the PS4. It is a western-centric console.


You obviously didn't watch yesterday's conference... 



WOW!



Pocky Lover Boy! 

padib said:

Why would you think I'm just angry? It's much more logical to assume that I simply disagree.

Here are some numbers to support my personal sense of the Japanese market:

PosPlatformJapan
9 Nintendo 3DS (3DS) 16.12
16 PlayStation Vita (PSV) 3.15
18 Wii U (WiiU) 1.89
22 PlayStation 4 (PS4) 0.67

Length of retail availability:
PS4 : 6 months
WiiU : 21 months
PSV : 33 months
Wii : 93 months

Perspective, it's a good thing to have.

padib said:
Not only that, but the latest trends show Nintendo consoles selling more than PS consoles, excluding the PS3 which is on the way out.

Why is it okay to discount the PS3 when it's still selling strongly, but not okay to discount the Wii, which is no longer shipping to retailers?, oh wait nevermind, I get it...



padib said:
Zanten said:

It is false but the entire point of the discussion has been that there's a poignant difference between misrepresentation- which leads to false impressions- and lying, which is stating false information outright. What they stated at the conference IS true. Any exterior assumptions it might lead one to believe, however, is false, but the key here is Sony avoided CLAIMING they were winning Lifetime sales; they carefully crafted a scenario where they held the advantage, and pushed that. It's something that every company does, Nintendo included, whether it's about sales, product advertisment, etc.

To put it another way. If Nintendo came out and talked about how their Wii U sales are significantly (edit: tired, 'consistently' probably fits better given the sales of both consoles right now are small enough to keep any massive gaps from forming,) outpacing the PS4 in Japan, is it a lie? No, absolutely not. And it makes the prospects of the console sound pretty darn bright. Same with the big, six hundred percent sales boost in the U.K. But it is neglecting to outright state the fact that they've gotten their butts kicked in Europe and U.S., (something a company will rarely, if ever, admit to without being asked directly,) leading to the competition blasting past them globally, despite a sizable head start. So by extension, they'd be trying to pump up their sales discussions- which, really, they only CAN do by exclusively mentioning Japan since the only other feather in their cap seems to be that they're edging out the Xbox One a little bit the last couple of months- by failing to outright state the many negatives of their situation.

Companies find the positives, present them to the customers, and sort of cough when it comes to the negatives. They do it because no company is going to come out and say; "Yeeeeah, we're getting our ass kicked. Like, LOTS."

@bold. If Nintendo did so to show that their global presence was strong, then I would agree with you that it would be misrepresentation. It's basically what's happening here. In other words I don't think your example is equivalent to the one in OP.

But it is.

Sony took one tiny piece of data that made them look really good, and presented it. The data is true. But any assumptions or beliefs that others could have drawn from it would have been colored by incomplete representation and a 'lie of omission.' (i.e. not telling the full story.)

In my example, Nintendo would have taken one tiny piece of data that made them look really good, and presented it. The data would have been true. But any assumptions or beliefs that others could have drawn from it would have been colored by incomplete representation and a 'lie of omission.' (i.e. not telling the full story.)

The sole difference here is WHAT is being omitted. In Sony's case, there is silence on data outside the given time period, and a lack of a more precise break-down in terms of PS4/3 sales versus Wii U/Wii sales, heck, throw in the lack of bringing in handhelds if you insist, but it IS a slightly different market, as Japan is proving by leaning more favorably towards portables. In Nintendo's case, they'd be omitting such things as the advantage of having had a holiday period with the Wii U in Japan for their launch, which Sony has not had. They'd have omitted the big head start. They'd have omitted the wider global sales.Etc.



Zanten, Doer Of The Things

Unless He Forgets In Which Case Zanten, Forgetter Of The Things

Or He Procrascinates, In Which Case Zanten, Doer Of The Things Later

Or It Involves Moving Furniture, in Which Case Zanten, F*** You.

They said 2014. It is accurate. Nintendo fanboy sites are trying to make news that isn't valid.

News at 9.

 

padib said:
Nicklesbe said:

I'm not justifying it. For the record I think he was wrong for saying it. I thought you were confusded by it so I was simply explaining the context and nothing more. If I was a mod I wold probably give a warning about it, but that's not on topic. What he said doesn't matter. What matters are the facts. Yes he was wrong for joking and saying he was religious, but imo the author of the article is far more in the wrong for his childish behavior, inability to fact check, and trying to pass complete lies off as truth.

I also agree that the author was wrong, but minus the clarification I would say that it is less wrong than an offensive comment.

@Tamron. Why didn't you say that to Veritaz when he confronted me about being "off topic", and to bubblegamer when he called out OP for "clickbait", yeah?

OMG!  Your offending me by turning this topic into what you think VGChartz ethics should be!