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Forums - Gaming - Weekly global 21 June: XBOX ONE increase again

chocoloco said:
Mummelmann said:
 


How is it impossible that there's a decline? So if something has experienced growth over time, it is impossible for it to enter a state of decline? That's how markets work, all of them.

The Wii alone sold more than the PS4, One and Wii U combined at this point in time during the first summer with all three out, this is nothing short a clear-cut indicator that we're seeing a market contraction and the front-loaded launches only show that consoles are being more affected by revisionist design philosophy like tablets and phones and the overall market movements in consumer electronics as a market segment.

There will be a decline, to deny that is folly at this point.

Meh, the decline in consoles is mostly from the wii going to the the wii U. There is not really a decline for the MS and Sony consoles. Thus some of us are not very concerned about the decline.


Regardless of the cause; there will be a decline in the home console market as well as a massive one in the handheld market and that's my whole point. The 7th gen saw 235-240 million handhelds and had three consoles ending up in the 85-100 million region in lifetime sales, that is unprecedented in console history and was the peak of the console market. Gaming has branched out and splintered into several chunks so even if the total revenue is still growing in gaming; the share going towards consoles will be shrinking a great deal.

And that is called a market contraction and people are actually arguing against the fact that there will be one, some have even claimed there will be growth. At this point, and since long ago; there is absolutely no basis for such claims but a whole lot for the opposite.

Besides; it is still to soon to say anything about MS and Sony consoles, I don't think the One will sell 90 million and I'm not so sure that the PS4 will beat the PS3 either, and if it does; it won't be by much.

The argument was; "look, there has been growth in the past generations, there is no decline". My answer is; past growth is in no way indicative of future and continued growth but there is ample data to support the opposite stance.

As for being concerned; well, neither am I for now, PC gaming has gotten a huge vitamin shot in the past 4-5 years and has actually grown and there are still studios that produce quality software for me to enjoy. What does concern me is companies like Capcom, Bioware and Dice shitting on their legacy and IP's though, and the likes of Dungeon Keeper and other classics being diluted and shredded on mobile platforms. The overall focus on glitz and glamour over actual worthwhile content and good writing and gameplay also worries me. I don't feel that gaming has changed for the better and the majority rules, which means that Angry Bird and the like are setting the bar for profitability and appeal; in turn making less studios (and lesser studios...) go for cheap and simple fare rather than living out ambitions.

All things aside though; the console market is facing a big decline and that was the main point I wanted to come across.



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jlmurph2 said:
Jay70sgamer said:
binary solo said:
Jay70sgamer said:


It's funny because xbox has never been the market leader period and it seems you are forgetting Sony wasn't the market leader for over 8 years until this year and every nintendo home console turned a profit Sony and Microsoft no.....lost billions also it's funny how a lot of people wanna say it was a fad no it wasn't 100,000,000 consoles is no fad ....it was called innovation motion controlled games something that wasn't done well until nintendo perfected it .....

Ahem! 80 million consoles thank you. Nintendo was probably going to sell 20 million Wii's without the fad factor. A one generation wonder is the very definition of a fad. The fact that motion controls are now passe is also the definition of a fad. 4 years of amazing sales in the context of console history is a fad. When the history of gaming consoles is written in 20 years fad is the word the historians will use to describe the Wii phenomenon. When you can't carry over your install based to the next generation your success the previous generation is a fad. The fact that Wii tailed off terribly long before Wii U launched means it was a fad. The fact that PS3 and 360 both outsold Wii in 2011 and 2012 means it was a fad.

Lol a fad is something that is hot for a moment and fades ...100,000,000 people is not a fad sorry any way you cut iton spin it so with your so called definition of fad I can call the ps2 a fad with the DVD player because Sony lost almost have there fan base from ps2 to ps3 (154,000,000 to "80,000,000) lol and you are wearing that ps3 and xbox360 outsold wii for 2 years like its a badge of honor what about the first 6 years lol and everyone knows nintendo stop supporting the wii in the last year in a half lol all consoles fade off the last couple of years lol nothing new or different for any console 

Which is exactly what happened to the Wii as seen by the last couple years and how the Wii U is selling. I dont care what anyone tells you, 4  million consoles sold in the first full year is not an achievement

You are forgetting this is not a sprint and but a race nobody knows how this generation is gonna play out so if playstation 4 does not sell more than the playstation3 that would be three straight generations off the playstation brand declining ..will I  be be able to say its a trend and that the playstaion brand is fading lol..people forget that each generation is different and that sometimes you win sometimes you don't lol it's as simple as that ...people forget nintendo has won 3 out of seven generations and has beat "every" console it's been against at least once(Atari,sega,Sony,xbox,Neo geo ,colecovison etc )that's a huge feat ...



enjoyed reading the comments. from MKart - overtracked - doom - fads
summer sales = boorrinng :/



Smartest nam evila

Current Platforms: HighendPC[rip]/PS4/PS3[rip]/Vita[rip]

Jay70sgamer said:
binary solo said:
Jay70sgamer said:
ChudStudly said:
Smear-Gel said:
Wii U's numbers are due to doom and gloom, while everybody else's numbers are due to "slow summer months guys obviously they are low"

Eeyup.


That's actually pretty accurate. I'm not concerned about X1 or PS4. WiiU is a different story. But even that isn't so surprising. Aside from the Wii fad, Nintendo hasn't been the market leader in home consoles for a long time. Look at the GameCube. 


It's funny because xbox has never been the market leader period and it seems you are forgetting Sony wasn't the market leader for over 8 years until this year and every nintendo home console turned a profit Sony and Microsoft no.....lost billions also it's funny how a lot of people wanna say it was a fad no it wasn't 100,000,000 consoles is no fad ....it was called innovation motion controlled games something that wasn't done well until nintendo perfected it .....

Ahem! 80 million consoles thank you. Nintendo was probably going to sell 20 million Wii's without the fad factor. A one generation wonder is the very definition of a fad. The fact that motion controls are now passe is also the definition of a fad. 4 years of amazing sales in the context of console history is a fad. When the history of gaming consoles is written in 20 years fad is the word the historians will use to describe the Wii phenomenon. When you can't carry over your install based to the next generation your success the previous generation is a fad. The fact that Wii tailed off terribly long before Wii U launched means it was a fad. The fact that PS3 and 360 both outsold Wii in 2011 and 2012 means it was a fad.

Lol a fad is something that is hot for a moment and fades ...100,000,000 people is not a fad sorry any way you cut iton spin it so with your so called definition of fad I can call the ps2 a fad with the DVD player because Sony lost almost have there fan base from ps2 to ps3 (154,000,000 to "80,000,000) lol and you are wearing that ps3 and xbox360 outsold wii for 2 years like its a badge of honor what about the first 6 years lol and everyone knows nintendo stop supporting the wii in the last year in a half lol all consoles fade off the last couple of years lol nothing new or different for any console 

Yeah and over 1 billion people watched Gangnam Styles on Youtube, I suppose that wasn't a fad either. If the original iPhone had solled 200 million units but subsequent iPhones failed to sell more than 50 million units would iPhone not be considered a fad? Was Blackberry not a fad in the grand scheme of things? I say yes, Blackberry was a fad because it captured the attention of the market for a few years then fell into irrelevance. Nintendo was heading towards irrelevance in home consoles, it captured a new and untapped market for a brief time and now it is heading back towards irrelevance in home consoles.

4 years is a moment for consoles. Your timescales are just not adjusted right.

Erm PS2 was the follow on from PS1 which was 104 million (the most successful home console of all time at the time, and still number 2)-->157 million, if you wanna call 50% growth then 50% decline across 3 generations a fad by all means do so. In some respects it was and I say 150 million home console sales will be the permanent record for all time home console sales and assuming DS really did just fall short (I have my doubts) PS2 may well forever be the highest selling gaming console. But 376% growth (GC-->Wii) followed by potentially 80% decline (Wii-->WiiU if Wii U only manages GC numbers) across 3 generations most assuredly is fad territory. 3/4 of one generation of phenomenal sales bracketed on either side by 2 generations of dismal sales, in the context of consoles, is a fad.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

Ka-pi96 said:
Jay70sgamer said:

It's funny because xbox has never been the market leader period and it seems you are forgetting Sony wasn't the market leader for over 8 years until this year and every nintendo home console turned a profit Sony and Microsoft no.....lost billions also it's funny how a lot of people wanna say it was a fad no it wasn't 100,000,000 consoles is no fad ....it was called innovation motion controlled games something that wasn't done well until nintendo perfected it .....


Xbox may not have been the sales leader but it did lead the market. Everything Wii tried to do is either dead or dying, 360 on the other hand popularised shooters including COD and was the main platform for those types of games. Those games are still the cornerstones of the industry today.

 

Wii was a fad. Doesn't matter how much something sells it can still be a fad. It stopped selling long ago and the Wii U hasn't even be remotely close to Wii sales, it was a fad.

You still not getting the point...so was the playstation 2 a fad with it sales because it had a built in DVD player and the new DVD trend at the time  and then next generation the sales went from 154,000,000 to 80 million ..explain that please ...like I said you win some generations you lose some ....shrugs 



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RolStoppable said:
binary solo said:

Ahem! 80 million consoles thank you. Nintendo was probably going to sell 20 million Wii's without the fad factor. A one generation wonder is the very definition of a fad. The fact that motion controls are now passe is also the definition of a fad. 4 years of amazing sales in the context of console history is a fad. When the history of gaming consoles is written in 20 years fad is the word the historians will use to describe the Wii phenomenon. When you can't carry over your install based to the next generation your success the previous generation is a fad. The fact that Wii tailed off terribly long before Wii U launched means it was a fad. The fact that PS3 and 360 both outsold Wii in 2011 and 2012 means it was a fad.

I think the actual definition of a fad is something that is shortlived and doing the same thing again won't work for a second time. Since the Wii lasted several years (in other words, an entire generation) and its successor is nothing like it, it fails to fulfill the conditions of a fad on both accounts. Of course, the jury is still out on the second time part, because in order to know for sure Nintendo actually has to make another console like the Wii.

The definition of fad differs based on the context of the discussion. The fact that people only cared about motion controls for a single generation, and that motion controls are not helping to drive sales the following generation pretty much puts Wii in particular and motion controls in general into the fad category.

Technically the Wii phenomenon didn't really last an entire generation. It lasted 4 years, and then rapidly tailed off to make Wii the worst selling console of on an anual basis for it's final 2 years of being the current Nintendo home console.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

Jay70sgamer said:
jlmurph2 said:
Jay70sgamer said:



Lol a fad is something that is hot for a moment and fades ...100,000,000 people is not a fad sorry any way you cut iton spin it so with your so called definition of fad I can call the ps2 a fad with the DVD player because Sony lost almost have there fan base from ps2 to ps3 (154,000,000 to "80,000,000) lol and you are wearing that ps3 and xbox360 outsold wii for 2 years like its a badge of honor what about the first 6 years lol and everyone knows nintendo stop supporting the wii in the last year in a half lol all consoles fade off the last couple of years lol nothing new or different for any console 

Which is exactly what happened to the Wii as seen by the last couple years and how the Wii U is selling. I dont care what anyone tells you, 4  million consoles sold in the first full year is not an achievement

You are forgetting this is not a sprint and but a race nobody knows how this generation is gonna play out so if playstation 4 does not sell more than the playstation3 that would be three straight generations off the playstation brand declining ..will I  be be able to say its a trend and that the playstaion brand is fading lol..people forget that each generation is different and that sometimes you win sometimes you don't lol it's as simple as that ...people forget nintendo has won 3 out of seven generations and has beat "every" console it's been against at least once(Atari,sega,Sony,xbox,Neo geo ,colecovison etc )that's a huge feat ...


PlayStation dropped gen over gen once not 2 times. While Nintendo dropped gen over gen every single generation until the Wii came. Tell me, if the Wii wasn't a fad then why didn't those people buy a Wii U? To go from 20 million in a year (2009) all the way down to 4 for the next generation is unheard of. It shows that the Wii was another popular trend that faded away like every trend does. 



Definition of fad: an intense and widely shared enthusiasm for something, especially one that is short-lived; a craze

Wii was a fad, end of.



binary solo said:
Jay70sgamer said:
binary solo said:
Jay70sgamer said:
ChudStudly said:
Smear-Gel said:
Wii U's numbers are due to doom and gloom, while everybody else's numbers are due to "slow summer months guys obviously they are low"

Eeyup.


That's actually pretty accurate. I'm not concerned about X1 or PS4. WiiU is a different story. But even that isn't so surprising. Aside from the Wii fad, Nintendo hasn't been the market leader in home consoles for a long time. Look at the GameCube. 


It's funny because xbox has never been the market leader period and it seems you are forgetting Sony wasn't the market leader for over 8 years until this year and every nintendo home console turned a profit Sony and Microsoft no.....lost billions also it's funny how a lot of people wanna say it was a fad no it wasn't 100,000,000 consoles is no fad ....it was called innovation motion controlled games something that wasn't done well until nintendo perfected it .....

Ahem! 80 million consoles thank you. Nintendo was probably going to sell 20 million Wii's without the fad factor. A one generation wonder is the very definition of a fad. The fact that motion controls are now passe is also the definition of a fad. 4 years of amazing sales in the context of console history is a fad. When the history of gaming consoles is written in 20 years fad is the word the historians will use to describe the Wii phenomenon. When you can't carry over your install based to the next generation your success the previous generation is a fad. The fact that Wii tailed off terribly long before Wii U launched means it was a fad. The fact that PS3 and 360 both outsold Wii in 2011 and 2012 means it was a fad.

Lol a fad is something that is hot for a moment and fades ...100,000,000 people is not a fad sorry any way you cut iton spin it so with your so called definition of fad I can call the ps2 a fad with the DVD player because Sony lost almost have there fan base from ps2 to ps3 (154,000,000 to "80,000,000) lol and you are wearing that ps3 and xbox360 outsold wii for 2 years like its a badge of honor what about the first 6 years lol and everyone knows nintendo stop supporting the wii in the last year in a half lol all consoles fade off the last couple of years lol nothing new or different for any console 

Yeah and over 1 billion people watched Gangnam Styles on Youtube, I suppose that wasn't a fad either. If the original iPhone had solled 200 million units but subsequent iPhones failed to sell more than 50 million units would iPhone not be considered a fad? Was Blackberry not a fad in the grand scheme of things? I say yes, Blackberry was a fad because it captured the attention of the market for a few years then fell into irrelevance. Nintendo was heading towards irrelevance in home consoles, it captured a new and untapped market for a brief time and now it is heading back towards irrelevance in home consoles.

4 years is a moment for consoles. Your timescales are just not adjusted right.

Erm PS2 was the follow on from PS1 which was 104 million (the most successful home console of all time at the time, and still number 2)-->157 million, if you wanna call 50% growth then 50% decline across 3 generations a fad by all means do so. In some respects it was and I say 150 million home console sales will be the permanent record for all time home console sales and assuming DS really did just fall short (I have my doubts) PS2 may well forever be the highest selling gaming console. But 376% growth (GC-->Wii) followed by potentially 80% decline (Wii-->WiiU if Wii U only manages GC numbers) across 3 generations most assuredly is fad territory. 3/4 of one generation of phenomenal sales bracketed on either side by 2 generations of dismal sales, in the context of consoles, is a fad.

Whatyou call a fad  I call innovation ....the iPhone was not a fad it was a new product of its kind (innovation)and till this day still sells well ...just because it's sells is not where it was when it first came outdoesnt make it a fad and blackberry wasn't a fad it just didn't evolve as  a product with time.....



Nintendo can blame the inability to sell Wii U systems due to lack of brand differentiation, poor advertising, and of course the lack of games that shift software. They have made mistakes and the reason things are looking so up right now, is because they were so low. I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo releases a new console in the next 3 years, (2016ish). XBone has the boost due to the pseudo-price drop and good amount of quality games out and on the horizon. PS4 sold so well initially due to lower price than XBone at the beginning and a Marketing campaign that somewhat resembled the "Droid does what I doesn't". The thing is both the PS4 and XBone have really great lineups of nearly identical games coming out, large third party support and should both start selling like hot-cakes around the holiday season, the second holiday is always a great measure of the system. Ninty dropped the ball. The thing I don't understand is why they just don't make HD ds type games, like a Nintendogs U or something cheap that could move systems. And tell third parties if they can just port games without using the gamepad, extra time, extra cost and lower sales combine to Nintendo losing all that initial great third party support and greater flocking to the Big Dogs.