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Forums - Gaming - Free Online (Wii U) vs Paid Online (PS4 and Xbox One)

Mr Khan on 25 June 2014
outlawauron said:
Mr Khan said:
outlawauron said:

There's far, far more to an online network and gaming service that the ability to join and play games online. The lack of unified account system, universal store, social functions (any AT ALL in-game), rewards system, and gameplay sharing all count against it (not to mention the non-interaction or gameplay perks of auto-download/install of updates/patches, etc). These things are the expectations with a new console as they're included by default by the competition. If Nintendo charged, maybe they'd be able to invest in a system that doesn't resemble what the PS2 had + Miiverse.

Uhh, they have that. At least the auto-download side.

For more than firmware updates?

Pretty sure. Most of the games i've played haven't had updates issued, but i remember it for Pikmin 3 and Ninja Gaiden 3.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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Leadified on 25 June 2014
DolPhanTendo said:
Leadified said:
DolPhanTendo said:
I have no issues with online at all with Nintendo. I mean online chat is annoying, so do not care. Do not really go online to be chatty kathy, its to kick people's ass in games. I will say what's up now then but that's to friends.


What about team based games where you need voice chat in order to kick people's ass?


This is true. But i dont want to listen to 13 year old boys drop N***a bombs every 12 seconds and swearing worse then sailors so FPS multi player i avoid .


I think that since Nintendo has a second screen, they could make an easy way to mute and report trolls, which imo is a better idea than not bothering with it at all.



TheLastStarFighter on 25 June 2014
naruball said:

Nice. I love how you ignored most of my points. Forget about inflation, forget 70 "free" games, forget deals everywhere that make the cost significantly less than $300, forget that there's a diference between paying $300 upfront as opposed to in the course of 6 years, everyone will own the console for 6 years and everyone will want to play online every month.

Yeah, it doesn't work that way.

Also, please provide a source for the bolded. If you make such claims, you need to back them up. What the Sony representative said was that 90something % have connected their ps4 to the internet, not that they have subsribed. Those people might be playing free to play agmes, MMO or single player games. But if they gave a number of subsribers that suggests that the vast majority of PS4 buyers are subscribers please go ahead and cite it. Keep in mind that a certain percentage of that are people who have a + subscription just for the games. Believe it or not some people still don't care about online multiplayer. You might, but not everyone does. For those people, Sony offers the option to never pay extra for it.

"Sony has been very open about this and blunt about it being how they are able to turn a profit on PS4 at $400."

Once again, you seem misinformed. They were able to make a profit thanks to ps+ when the ps4 launched, but the hardware on its own has been profitable for some time now (they haven't specified for how long).

Sony has never specified that they make money on each PS4 hardware sold alone, only that the business model is already profitable on a per unit basis when you factor in the PS+ subscriptions and other factors.  If you have a source from Sony stating that they make a profit from strictly PS4 hardware sold, please cite it :)

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/sony-says-ps4-unlike-their-previous-consoles-is-already-contributing-profit/1100-6419822/

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-09-20-sony-expects-to-recoup-playstation-4-hardware-loss-at-launch



naruball on 25 June 2014
TheLastStarFighter said:
naruball said:

Nice. I love how you ignored most of my points. Forget about inflation, forget 70 "free" games, forget deals everywhere that make the cost significantly less than $300, forget that there's a diference between paying $300 upfront as opposed to in the course of 6 years, everyone will own the console for 6 years and everyone will want to play online every month.

Yeah, it doesn't work that way.

Also, please provide a source for the bolded. If you make such claims, you need to back them up. What the Sony representative said was that 90something % have connected their ps4 to the internet, not that they have subsribed. Those people might be playing free to play agmes, MMO or single player games. But if they gave a number of subsribers that suggests that the vast majority of PS4 buyers are subscribers please go ahead and cite it. Keep in mind that a certain percentage of that are people who have a + subscription just for the games. Believe it or not some people still don't care about online multiplayer. You might, but not everyone does. For those people, Sony offers the option to never pay extra for it.

"Sony has been very open about this and blunt about it being how they are able to turn a profit on PS4 at $400."

Once again, you seem misinformed. They were able to make a profit thanks to ps+ when the ps4 launched, but the hardware on its own has been profitable for some time now (they haven't specified for how long).

Sony has never specified that they make money on each PS4 hardware sold alone, only that the business model is already profitable on a per unit basis when you factor in the PS+ subscriptions and other factors.  If you have a source from Sony stating that they make a profit from strictly PS4 hardware sold, please cite it :)

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/sony-says-ps4-unlike-their-previous-consoles-is-already-contributing-profit/1100-6419822/

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-09-20-sony-expects-to-recoup-playstation-4-hardware-loss-at-launch

I'm afraid I don't. Maybe someone else can help. The irony of me asking for a source and then not having one to provide myself doesn't escape me.

Edit: googled it

http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/05/22/kaz-hirai-the-ps4-is-already-profitable-with-hardware-alone/



TheLastStarFighter on 25 June 2014
naruball said:

Sony has never specified that they make money on each PS4 hardware sold alone, only that the business model is already profitable on a per unit basis when you factor in the PS+ subscriptions and other factors.  If you have a source from Sony stating that they make a profit from strictly PS4 hardware sold, please cite it :)

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/sony-says-ps4-unlike-their-previous-consoles-is-already-contributing-profit/1100-6419822/

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-09-20-sony-expects-to-recoup-playstation-4-hardware-loss-at-launch

I'm afraid I don't. Maybe someone else can help. The irony of me asking for a source and then not having one to provide myself doesn't escape me.

Edit: googled it

http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/05/22/kaz-hirai-the-ps4-is-already-profitable-with-hardware-alone/

Thanks, though it's acutally a misquote or mistranslation.  It's from the same meeting of May 22nd where every other media account of the meeting quotes him as saying 

Reported by Japanese site AV Watch (via NeoGaf), a Sony representative provided GameSpot a translation for one of Hirai's most interesting statements from the meeting. "From a profitability perspective," Hirai said, "PS4 is also already contributing profit on a hardware unit basis, establishing a very different business framework from that of previous platform businesses." It's a slightly roundabout quote, but that statement essentially says that the PS4 is already profitable, unlike previous console generations that are typically sold at a loss for their first few years.

So he didn't really say what Dual Shockers said.  What he said is that each PS4 sold contributes a profit to Sony already, whereas systems like the PS3 took years of game purchases before they made money off a game consumer.  They've never really given a breakdown, but they have implied the improved business model of PS4 is a combination of more off-the-shelf parts, no expesive new tech (like Bluray) and the addition of network subscriptions.  It's a great business model, I just hate that we as consumers are so blind to costs when they are spread out.



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naruball on 25 June 2014
TheLastStarFighter said:

Thanks, though it's acutally a misquote or mistranslation.  It's from the same meeting of May 22nd where every other media account of the meeting quotes him as saying 

Reported by Japanese site AV Watch (via NeoGaf), a Sony representative provided GameSpot a translation for one of Hirai's most interesting statements from the meeting. "From a profitability perspective," Hirai said, "PS4 is also already contributing profit on a hardware unit basis, establishing a very different business framework from that of previous platform businesses." It's a slightly roundabout quote, but that statement essentially says that the PS4 is already profitable, unlike previous console generations that are typically sold at a loss for their first few years.

So he didn't really say what Dual Shockers said.  What he said is that each PS4 sold contributes a profit to Sony already, whereas systems like the PS3 took years of game purchases before they made money off a game consumer.  They've never really given a breakdown, but they have implied the improved business model of PS4 is a combination of more off-the-shelf parts, no expesive new tech (like Bluray) and the addition of network subscriptions.  It's a great business model, I just hate that we as consumers are so blind to costs when they are spread out.

Interesting! Thanks for clarifying this. I had no idea. I saw people mentioning it so many times that I thought it was a well known fact by now. Guess I was wrong.



TheLastStarFighter on 25 June 2014
naruball said:
TheLastStarFighter said:

Thanks, though it's acutally a misquote or mistranslation.  It's from the same meeting of May 22nd where every other media account of the meeting quotes him as saying 

Reported by Japanese site AV Watch (via NeoGaf), a Sony representative provided GameSpot a translation for one of Hirai's most interesting statements from the meeting. "From a profitability perspective," Hirai said, "PS4 is also already contributing profit on a hardware unit basis, establishing a very different business framework from that of previous platform businesses." It's a slightly roundabout quote, but that statement essentially says that the PS4 is already profitable, unlike previous console generations that are typically sold at a loss for their first few years.

So he didn't really say what Dual Shockers said.  What he said is that each PS4 sold contributes a profit to Sony already, whereas systems like the PS3 took years of game purchases before they made money off a game consumer.  They've never really given a breakdown, but they have implied the improved business model of PS4 is a combination of more off-the-shelf parts, no expesive new tech (like Bluray) and the addition of network subscriptions.  It's a great business model, I just hate that we as consumers are so blind to costs when they are spread out.

Interesting! Thanks for clarifying this. I had no idea. I saw people mentioning it so many times that I thought it was a well known fact by now. Guess I was wrong.

No problem.  I think Sony really nailed it with this one and the PS4.  Great business model.  Makes me sad though.  It was such a success that surely free online will end with Wii U, and in the next gen we'll all be milked like we are with cell phones and other products no matter which system we choose.  Features like free games and so on lessen the blow, but personally I don't have enough time to game that I would prefer to just be able to enjoy the key titles I like online without paying a fee rather than get titles at no charge that I don't have enough time or interest to play.



radha on 25 June 2014
WolfpackN64 said:
radha said:

I pay ps+ for the "free" games alone, does nintendo offers free games every month? wait a minute... didnt the online suck? i have a Wii and their shop is terrible, is it the same in the Wii U? if so they cant charge for such poor service, if the Wii U has the same services as the Wii they simple cant charge because the online is terrible. But I dont have a Wii U so i dont know.

It never sucked, it was just a bit barebones

If it still is then that is why they cant charge, the competition is way way ahead of them



dd if = /dev/brain | tail -f | grep games | nc -lnvvp 80

Hey Listen!

https://archive.org/details/kohina_radio_music_collection

Arkaign on 26 June 2014
TheLastStarFighter said:
naruball said:
TheLastStarFighter said:

Thanks, though it's acutally a misquote or mistranslation.  It's from the same meeting of May 22nd where every other media account of the meeting quotes him as saying 

Reported by Japanese site AV Watch (via NeoGaf), a Sony representative provided GameSpot a translation for one of Hirai's most interesting statements from the meeting. "From a profitability perspective," Hirai said, "PS4 is also already contributing profit on a hardware unit basis, establishing a very different business framework from that of previous platform businesses." It's a slightly roundabout quote, but that statement essentially says that the PS4 is already profitable, unlike previous console generations that are typically sold at a loss for their first few years.

So he didn't really say what Dual Shockers said.  What he said is that each PS4 sold contributes a profit to Sony already, whereas systems like the PS3 took years of game purchases before they made money off a game consumer.  They've never really given a breakdown, but they have implied the improved business model of PS4 is a combination of more off-the-shelf parts, no expesive new tech (like Bluray) and the addition of network subscriptions.  It's a great business model, I just hate that we as consumers are so blind to costs when they are spread out.

Interesting! Thanks for clarifying this. I had no idea. I saw people mentioning it so many times that I thought it was a well known fact by now. Guess I was wrong.

No problem.  I think Sony really nailed it with this one and the PS4.  Great business model.  Makes me sad though.  It was such a success that surely free online will end with Wii U, and in the next gen we'll all be milked like we are with cell phones and other products no matter which system we choose.  Features like free games and so on lessen the blow, but personally I don't have enough time to game that I would prefer to just be able to enjoy the key titles I like online without paying a fee rather than get titles at no charge that I don't have enough time or interest to play.


Come join me on PC! Get a console style controller, and look at the steam sales! Free online (other than paid mmo like wow). Awesome variety, FTP, and keep your ps1,ps2,Wii discs to emulate in 1080p! We'll see future system emu as well down the line.

You don't even have to spend much to get a great start to PC gaming. Keep an eye on techbargains.com and you can score an i5/8gb ram/2tb system for around $350 often, and that includes legal windows license. Add a $120 750ti 2gb oc edition, and bingo : 1080p high details gaming fun and direct HDMI output to your big screen.

I always build my own, but the biggest bargain in entry level PC gaming is to get a great deal on a prebuilt and add a GPU.



plip.plop on 26 June 2014

$50 or $60 a year for online service is really not that bad. Add on top that you are given 2 free games a month, and then it becomes a fantastic deal. Granted, not all the games are good, but, that features does open people up to trying new, smaller games in the future especially casual gamers that would feel any game worth playing is only sold in a store.

Seriously, break it down. 60 for a year is $5 a month. Add the 2 free games, and the service just paid for itself if even half of those games are good. I'm not much of an online gamer, my 360 and ps3 stayed offline all last gen. But this gen, Im having fun playing games with friends I no longer see anymore. being prior military, I have met alot of people, and have parted ways with them. Sometimes it's cool to play games, and chat. instead of shooting messages back and forth on Facebook.

I really wish all of this existed when I was in High School. I went to 6 High schools, and there are people I have no idea what has happened to them. Kids today are lucky, the world is so much smaller, and connected.