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Forums - Sony - BluRay in PS3 was Win/Win for Sony

Smash_Brother on 25 February 2008

BluRay still needs to beat conventional DVDs and THEN it needs to beat downloadable media before it can "win" anything.



"I mean, c'mon, Viva Pinata, a game with massive marketing, didn't sell worth a damn to the "sophisticated" 360 audience, despite near-universal praise--is that a sign that 360 owners are a bunch of casual ignoramuses that can't get their heads around a 'gardening' sim? Of course not. So let's please stop trying to micro-analyze one game out of hundreds and using it as the poster child for why good, non-1st party, games can't sell on Wii. (Everyone frequenting this site knows this is nonsense, and yet some of you just can't let it go because it's the only scab you have left to pick at after all your other "Wii will phail1!!1" straw men arguments have been put to the torch.)" - exindguy on Boom Blocks

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xenophon13 on 25 February 2008

mmmok. that statement was a low blow (the rest of the world) but it honestly seems that way as you are just about the only person i have come across who does not think the ps3 played a major role. but really this arguement is silly so i am done and I am going to go play video games instead of arguing semantics with someone who is not going to change his mind



LordTheNightKnight on 25 February 2008

Final-Fan said:
04/18/2007
HD DVD - 100k in USA
Blu-ray - 1050k PS3s, 25k stand-alone players in USA
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070418-dedicated-hd-dvd-players-outsell-blu-ray-counterparts.html

07/26/2007
HD DVD - 300k in USA (half of which are 360 add-ons)
Blu-ray - 1400k PS3s, 100k stand-alone players in USA
http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9750763-7.html
http://www.news.com/2300-1041_3-6199134-1.html

(Note: apparently HD DVD was more popular on the other side of the pond, but then again so was the PS3.)

Say all you like about the studios LtNK,

Just what I say? Were you here when Warnder went Blu-Ray exclusive?

but there is no denying that the PS3 having Blu-ray was a MASSIVE boost to the install base, 

Why are you implying I did deny that? The PS3 has a drive, therefore it technically increases the instal base.

and a lot of the people who suddenly found themselves with a Blu-ray player probably went out and got one just for the hell of it,

"a lot" would be better served by hard statistics. I'm not saying zero people did, but the only hard data we have is half of US PS3 owners were even aware of the drive.

even if they had SDTVs.

Again, there were likely some, but this is a big assumption.

93% of the Blu-ray player install base as of July was PS3s.

Again, half even knew it was a player, and we don't know how many actually used it for that.

We can assume about almost every stand-alone Blu-Ray purchase was because of people who knew, and would buy those movies (although even then I won't say 100%).

Sure, most of those people didn't use it as such; sure, some of those who did would have bought a standalone player if the PS3 wasn't available. But there were enough who became Blu-ray buyers because of the PS3 they bought to make a big difference.

The difference was to hold off HD-DVD. I have NOT denied that. What I am arguing is what caused Toshiba to discontinue HD-DVD. Keeping a racer behind is not the same as causing them to drop out.

That's not to say that it was SUCH a big difference that it dwarfs all the things you mention. (For instance, I notice that (in the US) HD DVD only managed to sell 50 thousand non-360 players in the time that Blu-ray sold 75 thousand stand-alone players.) But the PS3's contribution is also not dwarfed BY those other things.


Let me repeat that. The PS3 held off HD-DVD. I have NOT denied that. What I am arguing is what caused Toshiba to discontinue HD-DVD. Keeping a racer behind is not the same as causing them to drop out.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Mars on 25 February 2008
Smash_Brother said:
BluRay still needs to beat conventional DVDs and THEN it needs to beat downloadable media before it can "win" anything.

lmao umm bud there is no downlaodable media for it to beat.

downlaod rentals mean nothing compared to a physical disk. 



LordTheNightKnight on 25 February 2008
xenophon13 said:
mmmok. that statement was a low blow (the rest of the world) but it honestly seems that way as you are just about the only person i have come across who does not think the ps3 played a major role. but really this arguement is silly so i am done and I am going to go play video games instead of arguing semantics with someone who is not going to change his mind

Okay, before we go on, played a role in what?

1. Getting awareness for Blu-Ray (which I don't deny)?

2. Helping Blu-Ray get the lead in sales (which I also don't deny)?

3. Or making Toshiba ultimately drop out of HD-DVD (which I do deny, partly due to Toshiba citing dwindling business support for that decision).



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

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Aj_habfan on 25 February 2008

LordTheNightKnight starts this crazy argrument every time, it's really just sad now.

Anyway, I don't how that Blu-ray losing scenario is still a win, they would have lost the format war and have a console that would stay in dead last.

It was a win/lose and they won the format war and lost the console war, but I'd say a big win overall.



Final-Fan on 25 February 2008
LordTheNightKnight said:

Final-Fan said:
04/18/2007
HD DVD - 100k in USA
Blu-ray - 1050k PS3s, 25k stand-alone players in USA
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070418-dedicated-hd-dvd-players-outsell-blu-ray-counterparts.html

07/26/2007
HD DVD - 300k in USA (half of which are 360 add-ons)
Blu-ray - 1400k PS3s, 100k stand-alone players in USA
http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9750763-7.html
http://www.news.com/2300-1041_3-6199134-1.html

(Note:  apparently HD DVD was more popular on the other side of the pond, but then again so was the PS3.)

Say all you like about the studios LtNK,
Just what I say? Were you here when Warnder went Blu-Ray exclusive?
You said, "Sony made the right deals to secure studio and retail support. Toshiba didn't. HD-DVD lost shelf space and new releases. That is what lost the format. The PS3 didn't make those happen."  You said that studio and retail pressure -- NOT the PS3 install base NOR the resultant Blu-ray sales -- made Blu-ray win and Sony lose.

but there is no denying that the PS3 having Blu-ray was a MASSIVE boost to the install base,
Why are you implying I did deny that? The PS3 has a drive, therefore it technically increases the instal base.
I did not mean to imply that you are denying that PS3s were sold.  Obviously.  I am establishing that as a fact and its causal connection to the second half of the sentence below.

and a lot of the people who suddenly found themselves with a Blu-ray player probably went out and got one just for the hell of it,
"a lot" would be better served by hard statistics. I'm not saying zero people did, but the only hard data we have is half of US PS3 owners were even aware of the drive.
If you know where to find retail statistics applying specifically to Blu-ray discs bought by PS3 owners, I would be extremely interesting in learning how that was accomplished.  I'm sure that there are very well-educated guesses on what those numbers are, but I'm not going to stay up till 3 AM rooting through obscure tech forums I've never heard of looking for them.  We're in guesstimation territory here.

even if they had SDTVs.
Again, there were likely some, but this is a big assumption.
I, the owner of a PS3 hooked up to an SDTV, very nearly did, and I haven't bought a regular DVD in months! (Aside from that Blade Runner box collection; I guarantee that if it had been offered in Blu-ray I would have been all over it.)  If I had bought, say, 5 DVDs that were also available on Blu-ray in the 13 months I've owned my PS3 (instead of zero), I guarantee you that at least one or two of them would have been Blu-ray. 

Short version:  It's guesswork, but not unreasonable.

93% of the Blu-ray player install base as of July was PS3s.
Again, half even knew it was a player, and we don't know how many actually used it for that.
Right, but even if only one in seven PS3 owners did so, that's still two Blu-ray-watching PS3 owners for every non-PS3-owning Blu-ray watchers.  (In July 2007.)

We can assume about almost every stand-alone Blu-Ray purchase was because of people who knew, and would buy those movies (although even then I won't say 100%).

Sure, most of those people didn't use it as such; sure, some of those who did would have bought a standalone player if the PS3 wasn't available.  But there were enough who became Blu-ray buyers because of the PS3 they bought to make a big difference.
The difference was to hold off HD-DVD. I have NOT denied that. What I am arguing is what caused Toshiba to discontinue HD-DVD. Keeping a racer behind is not the same as causing them to drop out.

That's not to say that it was SUCH a big difference that it dwarfs all the things you mention.  (For instance, I notice that (in the US) HD DVD only managed to sell 50 thousand non-360 players in the time that Blu-ray sold 75 thousand stand-alone players.)  But the PS3's contribution is also not dwarfed BY those other things.

Let me repeat that. The PS3 held off HD-DVD. I have NOT denied that. What I am arguing is what caused Toshiba to discontinue HD-DVD. Keeping a racer behind is not the same as causing them to drop out.
If you hold somebody underwater long enough, he drowns.  If you concede that the PS3 let Blu-ray establish and maintain a massive advantage over HD DVD, how can you then say it did not contribute substantially to HD DVD bowing out of the race?  Or are you only saying that the PS3 did not deliver the knockout blow?  If so, I agree.  That was Netflix/Wal-mart/etc.

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Final-Fan on 25 February 2008
LordTheNightKnight said:
xenophon13 said:
mmmok. that statement was a low blow (the rest of the world) but it honestly seems that way as you are just about the only person i have come across who does not think the ps3 played a major role. but really this arguement is silly so i am done and I am going to go play video games instead of arguing semantics with someone who is not going to change his mind
Okay, before we go on, played a role in what?

1. Getting awareness for Blu-Ray (which I don't deny)?

2. Helping Blu-Ray get the lead in sales (which I also don't deny)?

3. Or making Toshiba ultimately drop out of HD-DVD (which I do deny, partly due to Toshiba citing dwindling business support for that decision).
Question:  Do you deny a direct causal link between result (2) and result (3)?  If so, then why?  If not, then how do you justify denying (3) and not (2)? 

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

LordTheNightKnight on 25 February 2008

"If you concede that the PS3 let Blu-ray establish and maintain a massive advantage over HD DVD, how can you then say it did not contribute substantially to HD DVD bowing out of the race?"

I did NOT concede that. You are twisting my words. I conceded that the PS3 played SOME role, not "let Blu-Ray" get the massive advantage. And player numbers don't count, since it was players OTHER than the PS3 that made Warner switch.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Final-Fan on 25 February 2008

OK, then how would you characterize a 4.67:1 sales base advantage (as opposed to a 1:3 disadvantage)?

If I am twisting your words, set me straight. "Keeping a racer behind is not the same as causing them to drop out." You are directly stating that HD DVD was behind Blu-ray, and was kept there BECAUSE of the PS3, correct?  And I don't think it is disputable that it was there in the first place also because of the PS3. 

OK, let me rephrase: "If you concede that the PS3 let Blu-ray establish and maintain a SUBSTANTIAL advantage over HD DVD, how can you then say it did not contribute substantially to HD DVD bowing out of the race?"

Happy now?



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom!