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Forums - Sony - PS3 games and the lack of 1080p

rocketpig on 21 February 2008

Guys, even the much ballyhooed GT5p is not true 1080p. Its horizontal resolution is upscaled. If you don't believe me, Google it. The same guy who broke the Halo and CoD resolutions figured it out a few months back. It even has reduced AA (2x) in 1080p mode over its 4xAA in 720p. So the "upgrade" to 1080 is rather tenuous at best.

1080p games will be in the vast minority this generation. Next gen, every high profile game will probably sport that resolution.

And that's when I will upgrade from 720p. The FUD around high definition resolutions is obnoxious.




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darklich13 on 21 February 2008
ookaze said:
NJ5 said:

For many years now, PC games have had resolutions far higher than 1080p with no need for Blu-Ray at all.

You could make a 1080p game in a 1.44 MB floppy disk, though it probably wouldn't have much content (unless it was mostly procedurally generated).

 

 

Perhaps PC games have had resolutions far higher than 1080p *technically*, but you just failed to understand what a 1080p game means, which PC sure enough didn't have.

A 1080p game means a game whose native or recommended resolution is 1080p.

There aren't even 1080p monitors, whose native resolution is 1920x1080, as monitors are 16:10.

Technically, there are no 1080p PC games precisely because most monitors are 16:10 anyway, and not 16:9.

And I don't know of any monitor that is big enough to have a native resolution of 1920x1080.

Strangely enough, games on PC can have higher resolutions, but there is no way to display this resolution on monitors, you have to buy a HDTV for that.

 

And keep in mind that 1080p just means 1080 lines of resolution for every frames, the horizontal resolution can be anything (960, 1920, ...) and it will still be 1080p.

So actually, PS3 has more 1080p  games than listed here. And I think XB360 has at least one (I think it has 3, but I'm not current on the games).

 

Finally, people that say there's no difference between 720p and 1080p are laughable. Especially when these same people bash the Wii for not being HD.


 My Dell 2405FPW 24 inch LCD monitor is 1920x1200 native.  It has 5 inputs. D-SUB, DVI, S-Video, Composite, and Component. I use it for my games and for my computer.  I got it about 2 years ago for only $800.

If you don't believe me go here.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1774271,00.asp

 



EMULATION is the past.....NOW.......B_E_L_I_E_V_E

 

 


DMeisterJ on 21 February 2008
Entroper said:
DMeisterJ said:
shams said:
Wasn't the PS3 going to run two monitors, full 1080p - at 100fps locked? What happened to that?



Note that this *was* originally promised by Kaz, when the PS3 was first announced. And now it doesn't even have true 1080p games - and even fewer that run 1080p at 60fps (locked).

Hmm... What does this have to do with the op?

Looks like you're just taking cheap shots at Sony... though I wouldn't but that beyond you.


Well the OP is asking why we don't have 1080p PS3 games.  I don't see how shams' post was irrelevant at all, it was directly on the topic.


He didn't answer the question, he asked another question.  He didn't say anythhing about games or whatnot, he was talking about frames per second and two monitor HD.  I don't see anywher that the OP mentioned either of those things, the op was talking about why so little games were in 1080p, which he never even addressed, he only addressed what sony DIDN'T do.  Not answer the question.



Kyros on 21 February 2008

". It even has reduced AA (2x) in 1080p mode over its 4xAA in 720p"

I don't want to comment the rest but this gets a solid arg, Thats one of the points of high resolutions, that antialiasing problems are less problematic. So no this is no argument against high resolutions.



rocketpig on 21 February 2008
Kyros said:
". It even has reduced AA (2x) in 1080p mode over its 4xAA in 720p"

I don't want to comment the rest but this gets a solid arg, Thats one of the points of high resolutions, that antialiasing problems are less problematic. So no this is no argument against high resolutions.

True, the higher the res, the less AA is needed. But it still has an effect on how the graphics look, even at 1080p. I pointed that out to show how limited this generation's hardware is when it comes to 1080p resolutions. Games are making sacrifices to get that resolution, whether it be framerate, less AA, or upscaling vertical or horizontal resolutions. 




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darklich13 on 21 February 2008

As far as I know there are 3 games for the 360 with "native" 1080p.

Boogie Bunnies [Xbox Live Arcade]
Street Home Court
Virtual Tennis 3

These are the games for the PS3 that are native 1080p

A (1)
All Pro Football 2K7

B (1)
[ps] Blast Factor

C (2)
[ps] Calling All Cars
College Hoops 2K7

D (1)
The Darkness

F (3)
Fantastic Four Rise of the Silver Surfer
[ps] flOw
Full Auto 2 Battlines

G (0)

H (2)
Harry Potter
[ps] High Stakes on the Vegas Strip: Poker Edition

I (0)

J (0)

K (0)

L (1)
[ps] LocoRoco Cocoreccho!

M (2)
Marvel Ultimate Alliance
[ps] Mesmerize™: Distort (Playstation Eye)
MLB The Show

N (3)
NBA ‘07
NBA 2K7
Ninja Gaiden

O (0)

P (4)
Pirates of the Carribean
[ps] PixelJunk™ Monsters
[ps] PixelJunk™ Racers
[ps] Piyotama

R (0)

S (2)
Street Home Court
[ps] Super Stardust HD

T (2)
Transformers The Movie
[ps] Tekken 5: Dark Resurrection

U (0)

V (1)
Virtua Tennis 3



EMULATION is the past.....NOW.......B_E_L_I_E_V_E

 

 


rocketpig on 21 February 2008

Without even checking the rest, I know The Darkness is not running at true 1080p.

That puts your list on tenuous ground without even doing research.

Edit: It appears that NG Sigma isn't true 1080p either but the information I'm finding isn't 100% conclusive. Either way, we can toss that list out the window. I'm not going to fact-check every game there.




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Kyros on 21 February 2008

" I pointed that out to show how limited this generation's hardware is when it comes to 1080p resolutions. Games are making sacrifices to get that resolution, whether it be framerate, less AA, or upscaling vertical or horizontal resolutions. "

Again this is no sacrifice IMO . And upscaling means that the game doesn't have 1080p (if the game doesn't upscale a good TV will).

I will support the point that most games are not designed for 1080p because higher resolution means less details on screen and most people do not have 1080p displays (me included) so I am quite content that developers go for more details in 720p instead of putting out less details in 1080p. This doesn't reflect directly to the limitation of the hardware. Its more a question of your target group. And the 1080p owners are a pretty small group at the moment. But this discussion goes round and round and round and ...



rocketpig on 21 February 2008
Kyros said:
" I pointed that out to show how limited this generation's hardware is when it comes to 1080p resolutions. Games are making sacrifices to get that resolution, whether it be framerate, less AA, or upscaling vertical or horizontal resolutions. "

Again this is no sacrifice IMO . And upscaling means that the game doesn't have 1080p (if the game doesn't upscale a good TV will).

I will support the point that most games are not designed for 1080p because higher resolution means less details on screen and most people do not have 1080p displays (me included) so I am quite content that developers go for more details in 720p instead of putting out less details in 1080p. This doesn't reflect directly to the limitation of the hardware. Its more a question of your target group. And the 1080p owners are a pretty small group at the moment. But this discussion goes round and round and round and ...

Without testing GT5p in both resolutions, I can't really confirm if there is a noticable sacrifice there or not. But, either way, it is a sacrifice. 1080p still looks better with 4xAA over 2xAA. Any PC gamer knows that.

If hardware wasn't some kind of limitation, we would be seeing more true 1080p games than we do, demographics be damned. You don't think that, if given the ability, Polyphony would be running GT5p at 1980x1080/60fps/4xAA? I sure do. There's a reason why the game is 2xAA and the horizontal res is upscaled, and it's most likely not the fact that too few people have 1080p television sets.

If there are games coming where budgets are of no concern, it's GT5 and GTA IV. And neither are going to run at true 1080p. That says something. 




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Kyros on 21 February 2008

"1080p still looks better with 4xAA over 2xAA. Any PC gamer knows that."

Yeah but 1080p 2AA looks better than 720p 4AA so it is no sacrifice

"If hardware wasn't some kind of limitation, we would be seeing more true 1080p games than we do,"

Arg no we wouldn't. Todays consoles are perfectly able to display 1080p games (as year old PCs were able to display 1600*1200 games).
But of course the per-Pixel operations for the scene would have to be halfed against 720p (double the pixels).

So a developer has the options:
a) a game with twice the per-pixel operations (like shader effects etc.) for 720p or less per-pixel operations for 1080p. This has nothing to do with absolute power and would hold true for much more powerful systems. The ratio would still hold true.

Since the number of customers with 1080p displays is much smaller than the number of customers with 720p he would essentially give most customers a worse game if targeting 1080p.

Thats all, if there were more people with 1080p displays the situation would be different. Is this too complicated?