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Forums - Politics Discussion - What does Putin want with Ukraine

 

What is his end state

Annex Ukraine As a whole 337 40.60%
 
Annex Crimea 286 34.46%
 
Defend Russian People Fro... 184 22.17%
 
Total:807
Sharu said:
German newspaper writes about 400 US mercenaries fighting in Ukraine against people of Lugansk and Donetsk
www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article127862117/Hunderte-US-Soeldner-sollen-fuer-Kiew-im-Einsatz-sein.html#disqus_thread
1. Is this hewspaper ok or is it junkpress?
2. If it is legit, should be started a UN investigation regarding USA firing civil war in Ukraine? Maybe we need some sanctions from EU to USA, or we need to put NATO bases closer to agressors (usa) borders?

More interesting question to ask is why this even appeared in German media.



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CNN continues their fuckup session.



Sharu said:
German newspaper writes about 400 US mercenaries fighting in Ukraine against people of Lugansk and Donetsk
www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article127862117/Hunderte-US-Soeldner-sollen-fuer-Kiew-im-Einsatz-sein.html#disqus_thread
1. Is this hewspaper ok or is it junkpress?
2. If it is legit, should be started a UN investigation regarding USA firing civil war in Ukraine? Maybe we need some sanctions from EU to USA, or we need to put NATO bases closer to agressors (usa) borders?

If that's true, I expect it's because the mercenaries were hired by Ukraine or other local interests, not sent by US interests.  You won't find Obama on TV saying that they are just Ukrainians that happen to speak American English and use American equipment, or local militias that happen to be composed entirely of ethnically American Ukrainians. 



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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

People don't stop to argue with you because they can't.  They stop argueing with you for the same reason you stop argueing against a holocaust denier or someone who doesn't believe in evolution.


That's exactly why I stopped debating Mai. One of my pet hates is genocide denial and distorting facts to suit a nationalist (or patriotic if you prefer) agenda which is what Mai is doing. There's simply no point as you said it's kind of like debating other genocide deniers such as Holocaust deniers or even evolution or climate change deniers.

http://faminegenocide.com/resources/facts.html

Mai is clearly a Russian 'patriot' and won't hear anything bad said about agressive Russian foreign policy past present and future no matter how awful it is and with this mindset he will form his opinions dressed up as facts. Granted Russian action in Ukraine is in some way 'defensive' as I mentioned but it doesn't give it the right to trample over Ukraine's right to self determination which it is actively doing.

Putin talks about the rights of ethnic Russian speaking people in other lands, what about the rights of Tartars and Chechens who would rather not be a part of Russia? Hypocrisy at it's worst. 

http://www.economist.com/news/international/21601862-why-should-russian-presidents-innovative-attitude-towards-borders-be-restricted

It's ironic seeing Putin and his supporters talk about far right fascism in Ukraine when Russian TV gives plenty of air time to Western European far right politicians and also many on the far right in Western countries admire Putin for being a true 'patriot' for his country.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/04/east-ukraine-crisis-fascist-ma-2014416145823826439.html 

USA, EU, OSCE and the UN call Holodomor a genocide. Putins Russia does not (this is Mai and his 'patriotic' stance).

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Joint_Statement_on_Holodomor 

P.S Wikipedia rules.



^Oh Jesus, more insults and ungrounded allegations :D Throwing stones living in a glass house is a baaad strategy.

Right now I'm being veeeery generous not to talk sh*t and offend both of you in return, while at the time you doesn't seem to be so kind to me. Instead of personally attacking me provide the goddamn arguments. I don't even mind Wikipedia, but you do it cheaply forcing me to do all the legwork, which is disrespectful. Wikipedia by itself is not a source, but it might links to sources (or rather mongraphies that probably cite sources), provide those.

No? Maybe STFU up then?

 

On unrelated note...

Badassbab said:

Putin talks about the rights of ethnic Russian speaking people in other lands, what about the rights of Tartars and Chechens who would rather not be a part of Russia? Hypocrisy at it's worst.

When was last time when "Tatars and Chechens who would rather not be a part of Russia"? I could understand Chechnya some 15 years ago, you probably heard about it first time from the news :D But now it is scoring sky high as best Putin supporters (but of course it is all a fraud). But why Tatarstan all of a sudden for god's sake? You're talking with ethnic Tatar right now by the way, so careful with your BS.



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Badassbab said:

USA, EU, OSCE and the UN call Holodomor a genocide. Putins Russia does not (this is Mai and his 'patriotic' stance).

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Joint_Statement_on_Holodomor 

P.S Wikipedia rules.

If you read the link you've give, you'd see, that you're lying. This 'Joint Statement' is not EU/OSCE/UN official document. Asn it isn't state Holodomor as Genocide. 



Holodomor was in 1930+.

What does it have to do with current time-line?

Same goes with Stalin's tatars departation.

So when it comes to this, what happens in the past does matter. But if someone says about wars US started, ignoring any form of international law(which US helped to create btw) like in Iraq. It's become - it's in the past man, let it go already.
lol, hypocrites.

I wonder what will you say if your wedding cartel was killed by stupid US drone who thought it was separatists :/



Sharu said:
Badassbab said:

USA, EU, OSCE and the UN call Holodomor a genocide. Putins Russia does not (this is Mai and his 'patriotic' stance).

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Joint_Statement_on_Holodomor 

P.S Wikipedia rules.

If you read the link you've give, you'd see, that you're lying. This 'Joint Statement' is not EU/OSCE/UN official document. Asn it isn't state Holodomor as Genocide. 

It doesn't state it as such indeed.

Furthermore when the document cites the amount of victims the famine claimed from Goebbels propagandistic brochures, which couldn't be supported by any historical documents even with a stretch, that destroys its credibility for me, making any other discussions about it futile.



Putin said:

Holodomor was in 1930+.

What does it have to do with current time-line? 

Well, it was among many-many other things that have been put into the foundation of the new Ukrainian nation myth that emerged from the shambles of Soviet Union, to which it owes its existence ironically. The first mention of "Holodomor" if my meory serves me right dates back to 1986 in the article from Soviet press written by Katherine Chumachenko, the future wife of Yuschenko.

Since today what we're witnessing is the end of Ukrainian political nation, that couldn't be attributed solely to the destructive influnece of foreign forces, I guess it's not so off-topic.



I think he got what he wanted with Crimea. That was the oil rights in the Black Sea. The rest of this Ukraine invasion stuff is just window dressing so people keep thinking Russia is trying to re-create Soviet Union era regions. It's all about the oil.



A warrior keeps death on the mind from the moment of their first breath to the moment of their last.