By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Wii U's eDRAM stronger than given credit?

Pemalite on 15 March 2014
rooki said:

 this fanboy talk needs to stop nintendo had made weak hardware on par or slighty better then current gen, multiplatform games prove this and developer comments also back this up, along with neogaf confirmed specs, that are backed my a mod. here are some developer comments by the way

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-04-02-wii-u-less-powerful-than-ps3-xbox-360-developers-say

"No, it's not up to the same level as the PS3 or the 360," said one developer who's been working with the Wii U. What does that mean? "The graphics are just not as powerful," reiterated the source.
Anonymous developer



Funny thing is neogaf confirmed that wiiu actually has less shaders



"This developer is not alone in their opinion. Another developer at a major company confirmed this point of view. "Yeah, that's true. It doesn't produce graphics as well as the PS3 or the 360," said the source. "There aren't as many shaders, it's not as capable. Sure, some things are better, mostly as a result of it being a more modern design. But overall the Wii U just can't quite keep up."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-03-26-darksiders-2-dev-wii-u-hardware-on-par-with-current-gen

"So far the hardware's been on par with what we have with the current generations. Based on what I understand, the resolution and textures and polycounts and all that stuff, we're not going to being doing anything to up-rez the game, but we'll take advantage of the controller for sure."



http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/09/developer_interview_black_forest_games_on_bringing_giana_sisters_twisted_dreams_to_wii_u

""Overall the hardware itself is slightly faster than the other current-gen consoles.

"Then we started working on the port, we already had our game released on the X360, and going from a console release to Wii U is easier since the consoles have very similar performance characteristics"

http://mynintendonews.com/2013/05/17/ea-senior-engineer-the-wii-u-is-crap-less-powerful-than-an-xbox-360/

EA SENIOR ENGINEER: ‘THE WII U IS CRAP, LESS POWERFUL THAN AN XBOX 360′

There was great praise for the GPU when porting Mass Effect 3 to the platform, but not so much for the CPU.

THQ also stated that the CPU was slow, but then later reiterated only a "part" of the CPU was slow, not the entire set-up.

Crytek also gave great praise for the hardware handling CryEngine.

Ubisoft Rayman's creator also gave great praise.


Basically for every negative you can find a positive.
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/interview/29477/gdc-2012-dave-gargan-talks-havok-on-wii-u
http://www.gamespot.com/videos/aliens-colonial-marines-interview-with-randy-pitch/2300-6377485/
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-05-23-wii-u-darksiders-2-graphics-at-least-as-good-as-ps3-xbox-360-versions
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/354624/crytek-estimates-wii-u-is-minimum-as-powerful-as-xbox-360/
http://www.videogamer.com/wiiu/scribblenauts_unlimited/news/wii_u_is_definitely_more_powerful_than_360_and_ps3_scribblenauts_dev.html

The hardware is indeed "slow" by modern standards, but it's still a solid jump up from the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 in many regards if the information available is anything to go by, basically status quo continuing from last generation.

rooki said:
Quote:
The 360 has 240 (VLIW5) SPUs, and the hypothesis posits the WiiU to have 160 (VLIW5) SPUs of a generationally very close architecture. The clock frequency is similar, so if all other things wre equal, the 360 would have 50% higher raw ALU capabilities.

Wrong again! And again it's something that's come up in this thread a number of times. The 360 isn't VLIW5, it's an entire generation (or more) behind, and 'raw ALU' is only 23% higher on the Xbox 360 and nothing like 50%. And god knows how much more efficient VLIW5 will be. In things like triangle setup and raw fillrate the Wii U will be outright faster.

Not to mention that the Wii U won't have the same tiling penalties and that it can read from edram without a copy out / resolve to main ram (and even read from and write to the same buffer).

The 360 doesn't even have early z rejection!

Actually, it's not an entire generation behind, it's more like a small stepping stone between the Radeon x1900 series and the Radeon 2900 (Start of the VLIW architecture) series.
It has strong commonalities between both architectures.

However, you are correct the Xbox 360 isn't VLIW.

As for Early Z rejection, not entirely accurate.
http://tinyurl.com/ogo5ash


It's a PPT file from Microsoft which points out Early Z Rejection.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Around the Network
curl-6 on 15 March 2014
rooki said:

 this fanboy talk needs to stop nintendo had made weak hardware on par or slighty better then current gen, multiplatform games prove this and developer comments also back this up, along with neogaf confirmed specs, that are backed my a mod. here are some developer comments by the way

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-04-02-wii-u-less-powerful-than-ps3-xbox-360-developers-say

"No, it's not up to the same level as the PS3 or the 360," said one developer who's been working with the Wii U. What does that mean? "The graphics are just not as powerful," reiterated the source.
Anonymous developer



Funny thing is neogaf confirmed that wiiu actually has less shaders



"This developer is not alone in their opinion. Another developer at a major company confirmed this point of view. "Yeah, that's true. It doesn't produce graphics as well as the PS3 or the 360," said the source. "There aren't as many shaders, it's not as capable. Sure, some things are better, mostly as a result of it being a more modern design. But overall the Wii U just can't quite keep up."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-03-26-darksiders-2-dev-wii-u-hardware-on-par-with-current-gen

"So far the hardware's been on par with what we have with the current generations. Based on what I understand, the resolution and textures and polycounts and all that stuff, we're not going to being doing anything to up-rez the game, but we'll take advantage of the controller for sure."



http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/09/developer_interview_black_forest_games_on_bringing_giana_sisters_twisted_dreams_to_wii_u

""Overall the hardware itself is slightly faster than the other current-gen consoles.

"Then we started working on the port, we already had our game released on the X360, and going from a console release to Wii U is easier since the consoles have very similar performance characteristics"

http://mynintendonews.com/2013/05/17/ea-senior-engineer-the-wii-u-is-crap-less-powerful-than-an-xbox-360/

EA SENIOR ENGINEER: ‘THE WII U IS CRAP, LESS POWERFUL THAN AN XBOX 360′

Hi Ninjablade. Bye Ninjablade.



rooki on 15 March 2014
Pemalite said:
rooki said:

 this fanboy talk needs to stop nintendo had made weak hardware on par or slighty better then current gen, multiplatform games prove this and developer comments also back this up, along with neogaf confirmed specs, that are backed my a mod. here are some developer comments by the way

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-04-02-wii-u-less-powerful-than-ps3-xbox-360-developers-say

"No, it's not up to the same level as the PS3 or the 360," said one developer who's been working with the Wii U. What does that mean? "The graphics are just not as powerful," reiterated the source.
Anonymous developer



Funny thing is neogaf confirmed that wiiu actually has less shaders



"This developer is not alone in their opinion. Another developer at a major company confirmed this point of view. "Yeah, that's true. It doesn't produce graphics as well as the PS3 or the 360," said the source. "There aren't as many shaders, it's not as capable. Sure, some things are better, mostly as a result of it being a more modern design. But overall the Wii U just can't quite keep up."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-03-26-darksiders-2-dev-wii-u-hardware-on-par-with-current-gen

"So far the hardware's been on par with what we have with the current generations. Based on what I understand, the resolution and textures and polycounts and all that stuff, we're not going to being doing anything to up-rez the game, but we'll take advantage of the controller for sure."



http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/09/developer_interview_black_forest_games_on_bringing_giana_sisters_twisted_dreams_to_wii_u

""Overall the hardware itself is slightly faster than the other current-gen consoles.

"Then we started working on the port, we already had our game released on the X360, and going from a console release to Wii U is easier since the consoles have very similar performance characteristics"

http://mynintendonews.com/2013/05/17/ea-senior-engineer-the-wii-u-is-crap-less-powerful-than-an-xbox-360/

EA SENIOR ENGINEER: ‘THE WII U IS CRAP, LESS POWERFUL THAN AN XBOX 360′

There was great praise for the GPU when porting Mass Effect 3 to the platform, but not so much for the CPU.

THQ also stated that the CPU was slow, but then later reiterated only a "part" of the CPU was slow, not the entire set-up.

Crytek also gave great praise for the hardware handling CryEngine.

Ubisoft Rayman's creator also gave great praise.


Basically for every negative you can find a positive.
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/interview/29477/gdc-2012-dave-gargan-talks-havok-on-wii-u
http://www.gamespot.com/videos/aliens-colonial-marines-interview-with-randy-pitch/2300-6377485/
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-05-23-wii-u-darksiders-2-graphics-at-least-as-good-as-ps3-xbox-360-versions
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/354624/crytek-estimates-wii-u-is-minimum-as-powerful-as-xbox-360/
http://www.videogamer.com/wiiu/scribblenauts_unlimited/news/wii_u_is_definitely_more_powerful_than_360_and_ps3_scribblenauts_dev.html

The hardware is indeed "slow" by modern standards, but it's still a solid jump up from the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 in many regards if the information available is anything to go by, basically status quo continuing from last generation.

rooki said:
Quote:
The 360 has 240 (VLIW5) SPUs, and the hypothesis posits the WiiU to have 160 (VLIW5) SPUs of a generationally very close architecture. The clock frequency is similar, so if all other things wre equal, the 360 would have 50% higher raw ALU capabilities.

Wrong again! And again it's something that's come up in this thread a number of times. The 360 isn't VLIW5, it's an entire generation (or more) behind, and 'raw ALU' is only 23% higher on the Xbox 360 and nothing like 50%. And god knows how much more efficient VLIW5 will be. In things like triangle setup and raw fillrate the Wii U will be outright faster.

Not to mention that the Wii U won't have the same tiling penalties and that it can read from edram without a copy out / resolve to main ram (and even read from and write to the same buffer).

The 360 doesn't even have early z rejection!

Actually, it's not an entire generation behind, it's more like a small stepping stone between the Radeon x1900 series and the Radeon 2900 (Start of the VLIW architecture) series.
It has strong commonalities between both architectures.

However, you are correct the Xbox 360 isn't VLIW.

As for Early Z rejection, not entirely accurate.
http://tinyurl.com/ogo5ash


It's a PPT file from Microsoft which points out Early Z Rejection.

it s a solid jump in memory and edram, but othere then then that no devloper has gone on to say wiiu is  2x more powerful or anything in that nature, while it's clear we clearly hear developers saying its on par or slighty better then current gen but does somethings better. then you have mulitplatform game comparsions, and even exclusives are not looking better then current gen games, too much evidence showing the wiiu is a weak piece of crap hardware that only nintendo fanboys will support. some of those game developers really go into detail about wiiu hardware, like vigil, black forest games, no developer that says wiiu is more powerful has gone into detail about how much more powerful it really is, of core wiiu is overall more powerful, but just slighty, you might never see games that match ps3 best looking exclusives and funny thing is even 8 year hardware is getting better versions of third party games, how sad can the hardware get.



rooki on 15 March 2014
rooki said:
Pemalite said:

 

i checked all those links you posted about devoloper comments, and they made me laugh, dark siders 2 dev actually changed there tune and said its on par with current gen the port was much worse then 360/ps3 versions, alien marines was cancelled for wiiu, and anothere link is from gdc 2012, we all know the hardware was down graded since then and the link with crytek saying  at a minumem as powerful as 360/ps3 says a lot, even with 4 times the ram/2x for games, and 3 times more edram then 360 just tells you how weak the gpu really is.



Clyde32 on 15 March 2014
rooki said:

 this fanboy talk needs to stop nintendo had made weak hardware on par or slighty better then current gen, multiplatform games prove this and developer comments also back this up, along with neogaf confirmed specs, that are backed my a mod. here are some developer comments by the way

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-04-02-wii-u-less-powerful-than-ps3-xbox-360-developers-say

"No, it's not up to the same level as the PS3 or the 360," said one developer who's been working with the Wii U. What does that mean? "The graphics are just not as powerful," reiterated the source.
Anonymous developer



Funny thing is neogaf confirmed that wiiu actually has less shaders



"This developer is not alone in their opinion. Another developer at a major company confirmed this point of view. "Yeah, that's true. It doesn't produce graphics as well as the PS3 or the 360," said the source. "There aren't as many shaders, it's not as capable. Sure, some things are better, mostly as a result of it being a more modern design. But overall the Wii U just can't quite keep up."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-03-26-darksiders-2-dev-wii-u-hardware-on-par-with-current-gen

"So far the hardware's been on par with what we have with the current generations. Based on what I understand, the resolution and textures and polycounts and all that stuff, we're not going to being doing anything to up-rez the game, but we'll take advantage of the controller for sure."



http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/09/developer_interview_black_forest_games_on_bringing_giana_sisters_twisted_dreams_to_wii_u

""Overall the hardware itself is slightly faster than the other current-gen consoles.

"Then we started working on the port, we already had our game released on the X360, and going from a console release to Wii U is easier since the consoles have very similar performance characteristics"

http://mynintendonews.com/2013/05/17/ea-senior-engineer-the-wii-u-is-crap-less-powerful-than-an-xbox-360/

EA SENIOR ENGINEER: ‘THE WII U IS CRAP, LESS POWERFUL THAN AN XBOX 360′


Just because the hardware is different, doesn't mean it isn't as powerful. It is harder to develop for the Wii U, which makes the graphics come out different when they actually do. Take a look at the differences with the Wii, the hardware was different, so when games were ported from the other consoles, they looked like crap. 



Around the Network
rooki on 15 March 2014
Clyde32 said:
rooki said:

 this fanboy talk needs to stop nintendo had made weak hardware on par or slighty better then current gen, multiplatform games prove this and developer comments also back this up, along with neogaf confirmed specs, that are backed my a mod. here are some developer comments by the way

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-04-02-wii-u-less-powerful-than-ps3-xbox-360-developers-say

"No, it's not up to the same level as the PS3 or the 360," said one developer who's been working with the Wii U. What does that mean? "The graphics are just not as powerful," reiterated the source.
Anonymous developer



Funny thing is neogaf confirmed that wiiu actually has less shaders



"This developer is not alone in their opinion. Another developer at a major company confirmed this point of view. "Yeah, that's true. It doesn't produce graphics as well as the PS3 or the 360," said the source. "There aren't as many shaders, it's not as capable. Sure, some things are better, mostly as a result of it being a more modern design. But overall the Wii U just can't quite keep up."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-03-26-darksiders-2-dev-wii-u-hardware-on-par-with-current-gen

"So far the hardware's been on par with what we have with the current generations. Based on what I understand, the resolution and textures and polycounts and all that stuff, we're not going to being doing anything to up-rez the game, but we'll take advantage of the controller for sure."



http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/09/developer_interview_black_forest_games_on_bringing_giana_sisters_twisted_dreams_to_wii_u

""Overall the hardware itself is slightly faster than the other current-gen consoles.

"Then we started working on the port, we already had our game released on the X360, and going from a console release to Wii U is easier since the consoles have very similar performance characteristics"

http://mynintendonews.com/2013/05/17/ea-senior-engineer-the-wii-u-is-crap-less-powerful-than-an-xbox-360/

EA SENIOR ENGINEER: ‘THE WII U IS CRAP, LESS POWERFUL THAN AN XBOX 360′


Just because the hardware is different, doesn't mean it isn't as powerful. It is harder to develop for the Wii U, which makes the graphics come out different when they actually do. Take a look at the differences with the Wii, the hardware was different, so when games were ported from the other consoles, they looked like crap. 

I never said it isn't as powerful, even though some developers have stated that, i said it's on par, with some advantages and some disadvantges, the wii and xbox are perfect examples pretty much on par with having some disadvantages and some advantages.



DevilRising on 15 March 2014

This kind of thing is honestly old news at this point. Most of the Wii U's hardware is "stronger than most give it credit for". That will bear out when we start seeing later gen/wave games on it, starting with the gorgeous looking MK8 in a couple months.



snowdog on 15 March 2014

Games such as Trine 2, Most Wanted, The Wonderful 101, Super Mario 3D World, Mario Kart 8, X, Bayonetta 2 and SSBU say you're wrong.

There have been plenty of games at 720p native, 60fps with v-synch enabled. The latter of which is the most important.

It lies somewhere between the PS3 and Xbox One in terms of power, and if Nintendo have evolved the TEV Unit the way I think they have it explains several things: 1) Latte's ALUs being twice the size they should be 2) The low power draw 3) The performance of Latte with games in 720p native, 60fps with v-synch enabled 4) Negative comments from devs who haven't actually used the thing and have just judged it by looking at the spec sheet.



rooki on 15 March 2014
snowdog said:
Games such as Trine 2, Most Wanted, The Wonderful 101, Super Mario 3D World, Mario Kart 8, X, Bayonetta 2 and SSBU say you're wrong.

There have been plenty of games at 720p native, 60fps with v-synch enabled. The latter of which is the most important.

It lies somewhere between the PS3 and Xbox One in terms of power, and if Nintendo have evolved the TEV Unit the way I think they have it explains several things: 1) Latte's ALUs being twice the size they should be 2) The low power draw 3) The performance of Latte with games in 720p native, 60fps with v-synch enabled 4) Negative comments from devs who haven't actually used the thing and have just judged it by looking at the spec sheet.

black forest games and vigil have both made games for it, they go into great detail about its hardware, one says its slighty more powerful the othere says its on par. and the funny part is you mention devs looking at the spec sheet, thats means they can clearly see the wiiu dev sheet says 176 glops for them to make those comments.



rooki on 15 March 2014

if the the wiiu had 356 gflops gpu , with 2x the ram and 32mb of fast edram, there is no way developers would make such comments about the hardware, and there no way we would have so many inferior ports, 356 gflops VLIW5 trounces both the 360/ps3 gpus its not even close, too many developer comments stating it close to 360/ps3 interms of power. and forget about developers comments look at the games, a 356 glops gpu runs all 360/ps3 ports much better on pc with out optimization.