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Forums - Microsoft - Report: Xbox One and PS4 use up to three times more power than Xbox 360 and PS3

Cobretti2 said:
$150 over 5year = 11.8c/kWh

where do people get electricity so cheap lol?

also 253kWh = about 77 days of 24/7 gaming/video watching, they working this out for casuals lol


Yeah, I'm paying at least twice that much here in Japan.

No wonder everybody can afford those ridiculous computer rigs with such low energy prices. :P



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mysteryman said:
Cobretti2 said:
Chris Hu said:
Cobretti2 said:
$150 over 5year = 11.8c/kWh

where do people get electricity so cheap lol?

also 253kWh = about 77 days of 24/7 gaming/video watching, they working this out for casuals lol


i currently pay 8.7c/kWh and I live in Texas but there are states where electricity is a lot cheaper.  Also currently the cheapest 12 month plan in my area is 7.5c/kWh plans are always cheaper during winter since demand is a lot lower then since most homes use gas to heat their homes and on top of that most winters here are pretty mild.  During the summer plans are usually the highest since most air conditioning units run on electricity and the summers here are pretty hot.  11.8c/kWh is the current national average for the US but in most areas you can get it a lot cheaper in some areas its less then 1/3 of that.

wow thats cheap. Here the average is probably like 25c/kWh plus about 68cents-$1.20 a day fixed cost depending on where you are.

They are discussing about having flexible plans for interval meters so have liek peak, offpeak, should on shoulder off etc.. so depending o nthe period the price will change. Not sure what the final cost will be but they approx a range ofprice between 7cents to 45cents depending on period of usage.

Try around 32c/kWh in Melbourne, and I believe it's going to go up yet again. I'm just loving the carbon tax.


im in the cbd and pay like 22c for firt 1000kWh then like 24c for kWhs after



 

 

Cobretti2 said:
mysteryman said:
Cobretti2 said:
Chris Hu said:
Cobretti2 said:
$150 over 5year = 11.8c/kWh

where do people get electricity so cheap lol?

also 253kWh = about 77 days of 24/7 gaming/video watching, they working this out for casuals lol


i currently pay 8.7c/kWh and I live in Texas but there are states where electricity is a lot cheaper.  Also currently the cheapest 12 month plan in my area is 7.5c/kWh plans are always cheaper during winter since demand is a lot lower then since most homes use gas to heat their homes and on top of that most winters here are pretty mild.  During the summer plans are usually the highest since most air conditioning units run on electricity and the summers here are pretty hot.  11.8c/kWh is the current national average for the US but in most areas you can get it a lot cheaper in some areas its less then 1/3 of that.

wow thats cheap. Here the average is probably like 25c/kWh plus about 68cents-$1.20 a day fixed cost depending on where you are.

They are discussing about having flexible plans for interval meters so have liek peak, offpeak, should on shoulder off etc.. so depending o nthe period the price will change. Not sure what the final cost will be but they approx a range ofprice between 7cents to 45cents depending on period of usage.

Try around 32c/kWh in Melbourne, and I believe it's going to go up yet again. I'm just loving the carbon tax.


im in the cbd and pay like 22c for firt 1000kWh then like 24c for kWhs after

I'm in the outer suburbs, looks like it's 22c off-peak which isn't as bad, but still way off from the study.



mysteryman said:
SvennoJ said:


Actual results from that link

The PS3 went down from 209 watts while playing a game to 70 watts during the last gen
Xbox 360 went down from 198 watts to 80 watts while playing

So PS4 and XBox One have a good start, apart from the standby consumption


I'm surprised the Wii U wasn't included in this study, considering it's one of it's few moments to shine (perhaps I answered myself). It uses around 32 Watts max.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-wii-u-is-the-green-console


And if you play on the gamepad you save another 400 watt for tv and surround sound system :)



manuel said:
Cobretti2 said:
$150 over 5year = 11.8c/kWh

where do people get electricity so cheap lol?

also 253kWh = about 77 days of 24/7 gaming/video watching, they working this out for casuals lol


Yeah, I'm paying at least twice that much here in Japan.

No wonder everybody can afford those ridiculous computer rigs with such low energy prices. :P

PC's actually use bugger all power when idle. My Core i7 3930K CPU will range from 15 watts to 150+ watts of energy.
All my GPU's switch off when not in use with the primary GPU powering down to just 10-20 watts.

When playing a game though... All bets are off. :) GPU's will easily drive up to 600-800watts alone.
However, even if a CPU has a higher energy consumption rating than a slower CPU, it can actually end up saving you money in the long run as the CPU can "Hurry up and get to idle" far faster, saving more energy overall.

Energy is 30c/kWh here though so it's not cheap, but if you can afford a high-end PC, surely you can afford high-energy prices anyway.

However do keep in mind, the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 on launch were certainly not as energy efficient as the later revisions, so expect power consumption to come down as the years go by and software updates are rolled out.




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Pemalite said:

Energy is 30c/kWh here though so it's not cheap, but if you can afford a high-end PC, surely you can afford high-energy prices anyway.


I can't afford a high-end PC. *sigh*



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Chris Hu said:
Soleron said:
Don't expect power consumption on these to come down. Ever.

AMD hasn't even got 20nm products on the roadmap, and consoles would not be first priority for such a shrink.


Well before they can reach 20nm they actually have to release something that uses 22nm which is a regular size and not a half-note.

Actually the names of nodes have nothing to do with the size of anything, and in terms of rough tech equivalence, 20nm IS 22nm. Half nodes no longer exist. Also Intel 22nm is superior to TSMC and GF 20nm because it's non-planar.

And then the interesting thing is going to be that TSMC 16nm and GF 14nmXM will not actually be much smaller than 20nm, but cost a lot more.



Soleron said:
Chris Hu said:
Soleron said:
Don't expect power consumption on these to come down. Ever.

AMD hasn't even got 20nm products on the roadmap, and consoles would not be first priority for such a shrink.


Well before they can reach 20nm they actually have to release something that uses 22nm which is a regular size and not a half-note.

Actually the names of nodes have nothing to do with the size of anything, and in terms of rough tech equivalence, 20nm IS 22nm. Half nodes no longer exist. Also Intel 22nm is superior to TSMC and GF 20nm because it's non-planar.

And then the interesting thing is going to be that TSMC 16nm and GF 14nmXM will not actually be much smaller than 20nm, but cost a lot more.

Not to mention Samsung advertises it's "nodes" wierdly.
I.E. It advertised it's new "10nm class technology" which puts it anywhere from 10nm to 19nm. (That's for NAND.)

You are indeed wrong on the part that half-nodes no longer exist though.
Half nodes are those that are not defined by the ITRS or "International Technology Roadmap for Semiconductors""

For instance, 65nm, 45nm, 32nm, 22nm, 16nm and 11nm are classed as full nodes as specified by the ITRS.
Half nodes are 55nm, 40nm, 28nm, 20nm, 14nm and 10nm.

In general CPU's from the likes of Intel are always on a full node, sometimes the chipset or other chips may be on a half-node like in the case of AMD's 780 and 880 chipsets .
Traditionally SOC's from the likes of ARM, and in some cases... AMD APU's as well as GPU's are usually on what is called the "half node".
Intel historically used to keep it's chipsets on a node or two behind it's latest fabrication process in order to give the old fabs something to do as an idle fab is wasted money.

Right now the consoles are using 28nm or a "half node" eventually they will move to "20nm" in the next stepping, that probably likely won't happen untill 2015 however because of yield and power characteristics.
nVidia and AMD will likely sample it first and take the hit on their high-end GPU's untill the kinks are worked out.

And everyone knows Intel is the masters at playing the game of fabs. :)
They won't be beaten on that front any time soon, it's literally the only thing that's allowing Atom to go up against ARM.




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

Pemalite said:
...

You are indeed wrong on the part that half-nodes no longer exist though.

Half nodes are those that are not defined by the ITRS or "International Technology Roadmap for Semiconductors""

For instance, 65nm, 45nm, 32nm, 22nm, 16nm and 11nm are classed as full nodes as specified by the ITRS.
Half nodes are 55nm, 40nm, 28nm, 20nm, 14nm and 10nm.

No one gives a fuck about the ITRS. What matters is the tech of Intel, GF, Samsung and TSMC. That's it. And in TSMC and GF's case, "20nm" is not smaller than Intel 22nm. The "nm" doesn't refer to anything useful, it's arbitrary since about 10 years ago. Ask former fab engineer idontcare on Anandtech forums for more info.

In general CPU's from the likes of Intel are always on a full node, sometimes the chipset or other chips may be on a half-node like in the case of AMD's 780 and 880 chipsets .

Vastly outdated info. There are no more half nodes ever again. It's too expensive to develop them. So they just rebrand.

Traditionally SOC's from the likes of ARM, and in some cases... AMD APU's as well as GPU's are usually on what is called the "half node".
Intel historically used to keep it's chipsets on a node or two behind it's latest fabrication process in order to give the old fabs something to do as an idle fab is wasted money.

Right now the consoles are using 28nm or a "half node" eventually they will move to "20nm" in the next stepping, that probably likely won't happen untill 2015 however because of yield and power characteristics.

TSMC 28nm = rebranded cancelled 32nm tech. It's 32nm, trust me.

nVidia and AMD will likely sample it first and take the hit on their high-end GPU's untill the kinks are worked out.

That won't happen in 2014. They will have it on GPUs in 2015 then consoles might be 2016 if ever. (I expect it to never happen)

And everyone knows Intel is the masters at playing the game of fabs. :)
They won't be beaten on that front any time soon, it's literally the only thing that's allowing Atom to go up against ARM.





Soleron said:
No one gives a fuck about the ITRS. What matters is the tech of Intel, GF, Samsung and TSMC. That's it. And in TSMC and GF's case, "20nm" is not smaller than Intel 22nm. The "nm" doesn't refer to anything useful, it's arbitrary since about 10 years ago. Ask former fab engineer idontcare on Anandtech forums for more info.

I don't doubt that one bit. But people care about numbers. And 20nm is classed as a half node. :P

Besides, different fabs have different levels of transister density even at the same node, for instance TSMC at 32nm might pack less transisters per mm2 than Intel would at 32nm.
As a process matures, you can also pack more transisters into the same space.
There is actually allot more to packing transisters into a chip than the "nm" rating.
But to claim TSMC 20nm isn't on a smaller process than Intel's 22nm.. I would need to see some solid linkage, rather than take the word of what is essentially a stranger on the internet.

Soleron said:
Vastly outdated info. There are no more half nodes ever again. It's too expensive to develop them. So they just rebrand.

Not necessarily.
It depends on the fabricator's position.
The large cost is in the R&D (And building the plants!) you can bet those who are in the fab game does the R&D at every single step. I.E. 19nm, 18nm etc'.
That way they can observe such things like electromigration, leakage and mitigate it as much as possible.

Soleron said:
That won't happen in 2014. They will have it on GPUs in 2015 then consoles might be 2016 if ever. (I expect it to never happen)

I agree.
AMD won't have it's new GPU untill late 2014, by then the process would be new.
It would take a good 6-12+ months for it to mature and by that time, then it might happen. (In the case of TSMC however, never have your hopes up for yields to improve quickly.)




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite