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Forums - Sony - PS4 GPU is HD7870 confirmed

Saying the GPU is overpowered compared to the CPU kind of loses any meaning when GPGPU w/ unified memory is in the picture, doesn't it?
XBone's CU shortfall exists because they are using ESRAM, which in best (limited) circumstances pretty much matches PS4.
The ESRAM is displacing the PS4's increased CU's, ROPs, and ACE.
MS' choice between upclocking and +2CU is based on their existing design, which is ROP bound, and thus upclocking helps everything including ROP.
That a 5% clock bump is more helpful than a +16% increase in CU's is in fact revealing of the limits of their design.

Otherwise, think if there is a reason that high end PC GPUs tend to be very big with many CUs (more than either XBone/PS4),
instead of just aiming for high clock speeds of lower CU designs, with either high failure/bin rates or exotic materials to enable that.

Or for that matter, why GPGPU using GPUs for non graphics code instead of using conventional CPUs is actually a major thing, with GPUs of course having MANY MANY shaders/etc vs. CPUs relatively fewer execution cores at high clockspeeds.



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I do think you can say that the PS4's bandwidth is proportionately less for it's CUs compared to XBone, assuming scenarios where XBone's ESRAM is efficiently utilized (which itself carries restrictions on software design that PS4 doesn't have), and if one wanted to apply PS4's benefits in a 'stupid' way i.e. just more detail settings and resolution, then that comes into play... so e.g. the 50% CU advantage may not be fully realisable IN THAT WAY. But when it's CUs and ACE are used for other purposes which are relatively less bandwidth hungry, then that isn't really an issue. Which ultimately means that PS4 will be best used not just being better at the same things but being better (at the same things) AND different(unique).

I think Sony did get lucky with being able to double their GDDR at the last minute, with half the memory I think there would certainly be some more downsides against them (in XBone's favor), but as it happened they lucked out and there's really nothing XBone can hold over their design. Clearly MS really needed that clock boost just to help the ROPs pump out even halfway what people expect resolution-wise for 'next gen'.  Really the only thing XBone has is Kinect 2.0, yet all we have seen so far is it being removed or down-played in actual games.  Personally, 6axis seems way more useful of an áuxilliary control scheme' for most games (and in fact, I'm disappointed it isn't used as much as it could be).  With Sony also offering a camera and voice control capabilities I'm not so sure if there is even much real unique advantage there for MS.  I fully expect there to be really awesome MS exclusives, and people who get both may be very happy with that... I'm not inclined to get both platforms so that won't be me, but I am happy getting the superior platform and enjoying the top notch games that come out for it.

I am dubious of MS' over all strategy with XBone, marketing it as a 'TV enhancer' and whatnot... What is the market for that exactly anyways? "Casuals" probably don't want to drop $500+ on something that let's them do the same things, but with voice control (most of the time). Especially when those features themselves could be implemented in something like a Roku for much less money. Their TV synergy doesn't seem to be working for much beyond the US market either, whether with problems with PAL 50hz signals, or simple channel/schedule integration in non-US markets. BBC's iPlayer simply isn't offered because BBC won't allow companies to put their services behind paywalls, and as we know XBox Live Gold is required for ANYTHING online. So outside of the US, I just don't see how XBone is even a good 'media PC'. It's hard to say at this point, obviously right this moment PS4 is massively outselling XBone in the US due to focusing on the US market initially, but going forward it really seems like at least PS4 will  be equal there. I don't see any reason to see why the rest of the world will not see AT LEAST the PS3/X360 pattern repeated (and really it's to PS4's advantage, with simultaneous release, cheaper price, and more power), so I don't see how the market cannot go anywhere but in Sony's favor in a major way. (Sony's problems in Brazil seem MS' best luck so far, although I think they can order thru Amazon/etc for equivalent price to Xbone most people won't think of doing that, and MS will take advantage until Sony can switch their Brazil factory to producing PS4)  Of course, MS will not dissappear and there will be good games for XBone, sure, but things do seem set for the stronger platform to prevail, encouraging more exclusive/'primary' games to be developed catering for PS4's features, which seems a good outcome to me.



Well to be more accurate it's Pitcairn with a few modifications binned for yield, both the 7870 (full Pitcairn) and 7850 (which is also a binned version of Pitcairn) are the same die.



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ethomaz said:
gmcmen said:
wow this means ps4 even more powerful then previously thought.

To be serious it is... after release the sites discovered:

  • TRUE AUDIO Support
  • 256MB DDR3 for the ARM CPU
  • 32MB Flash for unknown reasons
  • CPU clock over 1.6GHz (possible 1.8Ghz)

and now with this news coming in that is just amazing, for the price the ps4 is a beast.

I have a few questions here. Please expand on the 32mb they found what is it exactly? what can it be used for? is it similar to the xbox 32mb ram? and I though they confirmed the CPU clock was 1.6GHz, :S correct me if im wrong.



Very cool its a custom 7870 hd gpu can't Waite to see 2 gen ps4 games



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http://www.redgamingtech.com/playstation-4-amd-jaguar-cpu-1-8ghz-ps4-rumor-and-two-disabled-compute-units/

This came out the day after launch but never really got any attention

 

edit:  Hmm lotsa rumors now when i look about the clock speed being higher, 



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the-pi-guy said:
p3ro said:
ethomaz said:
gmcmen said:
wow this means ps4 even more powerful then previously thought.

To be serious it is... after release the sites discovered:

  • TRUE AUDIO Support
  • 256MB DDR3 for the ARM CPU
  • 32MB Flash for unknown reasons
  • CPU clock over 1.6GHz (possible 1.8Ghz)

and now with this news coming in that is just amazing, for the price the ps4 is a beast.

I have a few questions here. Please expand on the 32mb they found what is it exactly? what can it be used for? is it similar to the xbox 32mb ram? and I though they confirmed the CPU clock was 1.6GHz, :S correct me if im wrong.

We still don't know what the 32 MB Flash is for.  I'm sure some people have their theories, but I don't think anyone here knows what it is for officially.  It is not the same as the Xbox RAM, though.  

They also, never confirmed the CPU clock.  MS assumed that it was 1.6, but Sony has not made any comment on it as far as I'm aware.  


can you are anyone else explain what the TRUE AUDIO support means? 

and what the 256MB of DDR3 means? what can it do? and does that mean it has 8gb gddr5 + 256mb ddr3 = 8.25gb = 3.2% more than xb one?



 

SocialistSlayer said:

can you are anyone else explain what the TRUE AUDIO support means? 

and what the 256MB of DDR3 means? what can it do? and does that mean it has 8gb gddr5 + 256mb ddr3 = 8.25gb = 3.2% more than xb one?

It doesn't work that way.

I'm sure someone on here can explain the purpose of the DDR3, but it cannot be used as a part of the DDR5 main memory resources. My guess is it's used exclusively for audio purposes among other potential uses. 

At any rate, an extra 256MB of RAM is pretty insigificant compared to the reduced OS overhead of the PS4 relative to the XB1, which effectively gives developers access to more memory for their apps, game engines, and due to the unified memory structure, more memory for the GPU to utilize for larger texture buffers, etc. etc. 



greenmedic88 said:
SocialistSlayer said:

can you are anyone else explain what the TRUE AUDIO support means? 

and what the 256MB of DDR3 means? what can it do? and does that mean it has 8gb gddr5 + 256mb ddr3 = 8.25gb = 3.2% more than xb one?

It doesn't work that way.

I'm sure someone on here can explain the purpose of the DDR3, but it cannot be used as a part of the DDR5 main memory resources. My guess is it's used exclusively for audio purposes among other potential uses. 

At any rate, an extra 256MB of RAM is pretty insigificant compared to the reduced OS overhead of the PS4 relative to the XB1, which effectively gives developers access to more memory for their apps, game engines, and due to the unified memory structure, more memory for the GPU to utilize for larger texture buffers, etc. etc. 


how much ram does ps4's OS use compared to xbox?

also by having 256mb ddr3 for sound or something, does that mean more of the 8gb gddr5 can be used for things like graphics and physics, meaning even more ram resources freed up for other tasks?



 

Huge difference really O.O