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Forums - PC - John Carmack: Nvidia's OpenGL extensions give similar improvements to AMD's Mantle

ethomaz on 19 October 2013

Found in GAF... interesting.

This follows AMD's own statements that OpenGL with their extensions are going to make their GCN cards about as fast as Mantle will do.

Outch.

So Mantle didn't have any advantage over what we have today with OpenGL.



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Slimebeast on 19 October 2013

What does this mean for console gaming? And what does it mean for future PC graphics cards (AMD)?



Jizz_Beard_thePirate on 19 October 2013

Hmm... this seems interesting but its hard to tell how its all gonna turn out... Nvidia cards usually have the best performance and with this, the performance will be even better for non-Windows machines but at the same time... AMD will be on the consoles and most games will probably be made there first and then ported to the PC so therefore it should, in theory be already optimized as the game is making its way to PC with Mantle



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

dahuman on 19 October 2013

It means unless D3D improves by a truckload, OGL will rape it in the ass and we'd see games with more OGL requirements instead of DX ones, which is just fine by me.



dahuman on 19 October 2013
Slimebeast said:
What does this mean for console gaming? And what does it mean for future PC graphics cards (AMD)?


makes no difference for consoles, for PC, read above.



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dahuman on 19 October 2013
Jizz_Beard_thePirate said:
Hmm... this seems interesting but its hard to tell how its all gonna turn out... Nvidia cards usually have the best performance and with this, the performance will be even better for non-Windows machines but at the same time... AMD will be on the consoles and most games will probably be made there first and then ported to the PC so therefore it should, in theory be already optimized as the game is making its way to PC with Mantle


3rd party business decision porting would turn to OGL first based on cost and performance ratio in development (keep in mind that Mantle is AMD only for the most part, Nvidia has the larger market on PCs.) PC industry would move where Steam goes, and that's SteamOS and optimized OGL for respective cards.



sunK1D on 19 October 2013
dahuman said:
Jizz_Beard_thePirate said:
Hmm... this seems interesting but its hard to tell how its all gonna turn out... Nvidia cards usually have the best performance and with this, the performance will be even better for non-Windows machines but at the same time... AMD will be on the consoles and most games will probably be made there first and then ported to the PC so therefore it should, in theory be already optimized as the game is making its way to PC with Mantle


3rd party business decision porting would turn to OGL first based on cost and performance ratio in development (keep in mind that Mantle is AMD only for the most part, Nvidia has the larger market on PCs.) PC industry would move where Steam goes, and that's SteamOS and optimized OGL for respective cards.


Wishful thinking really.



dahuman on 19 October 2013
sunK1D said:
dahuman said:
Jizz_Beard_thePirate said:
Hmm... this seems interesting but its hard to tell how its all gonna turn out... Nvidia cards usually have the best performance and with this, the performance will be even better for non-Windows machines but at the same time... AMD will be on the consoles and most games will probably be made there first and then ported to the PC so therefore it should, in theory be already optimized as the game is making its way to PC with Mantle


3rd party business decision porting would turn to OGL first based on cost and performance ratio in development (keep in mind that Mantle is AMD only for the most part, Nvidia has the larger market on PCs.) PC industry would move where Steam goes, and that's SteamOS and optimized OGL for respective cards.


Wishful thinking really.


2nd half probably :D 1st half not so much lol.



Jizz_Beard_thePirate on 19 October 2013
dahuman said:
Jizz_Beard_thePirate said:
Hmm... this seems interesting but its hard to tell how its all gonna turn out... Nvidia cards usually have the best performance and with this, the performance will be even better for non-Windows machines but at the same time... AMD will be on the consoles and most games will probably be made there first and then ported to the PC so therefore it should, in theory be already optimized as the game is making its way to PC with Mantle


3rd party business decision porting would turn to OGL first based on cost and performance ratio in development (keep in mind that Mantle is AMD only for the most part, Nvidia has the larger market on PCs.) PC industry would move where Steam goes, and that's SteamOS and optimized OGL for respective cards.

Well if you looked at what AMD has said in a few interviews, Third Party is the one that came to them asking for an API such as Mantle in order to port games to the PC as well as other things so I doubt they are gonna go to Open GL instead... Mantle was made cause of the developers asking for it and not really cause AMD wanted to from the beginning... (If AMD's claims are true that is)

And yes, Nvidia has the market share in PC but AMD will dominate in the Console and maybe even PC if this thing goes well for them...

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7371/understanding-amds-mantle-a-lowlevel-graphics-api-for-gcn



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

dahuman on 19 October 2013
Jizz_Beard_thePirate said:
dahuman said:
Jizz_Beard_thePirate said:
Hmm... this seems interesting but its hard to tell how its all gonna turn out... Nvidia cards usually have the best performance and with this, the performance will be even better for non-Windows machines but at the same time... AMD will be on the consoles and most games will probably be made there first and then ported to the PC so therefore it should, in theory be already optimized as the game is making its way to PC with Mantle


3rd party business decision porting would turn to OGL first based on cost and performance ratio in development (keep in mind that Mantle is AMD only for the most part, Nvidia has the larger market on PCs.) PC industry would move where Steam goes, and that's SteamOS and optimized OGL for respective cards.

Well if you looked at what AMD has said in a few interviews, Third Party is the one that came to them asking for an API such as Mantle in order to port games to the PC as well as other things so I doubt they are gonna go to Open GL instead... Mantle was made cause of the developers asking for it and not really cause AMD wanted to from the beginning... (If AMD's claims are true that is)

And yes, Nvidia has the market share in PC but AMD will dominate in the Console and maybe even PC if this thing goes well for them...

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7371/understanding-amds-mantle-a-lowlevel-graphics-api-for-gcn

Looking at the current financials report from AMD, I highly doubt anything crazy will happen especially when Nvidia just came out with so many new techs that will benefit gamers more than what Mantle has to offer. Don't get me wrong, I want AMD to succeed, I've used them since the original All-in-Wonder when they were still ATI and not associated with AMD at all and I'm still using both companies to this day. I just don't think Mantle is the actual answer since it doesn't actually make development or porting any easier or cheaper as they'd still have to make either D3D or OGL versions anyways.