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Forums - Microsoft - Is “GPU Acceleration” Xbox One Secret Sauce?

Pemalite said:
dahuman said:

Don't drag me into this lol.

Though my 2 cents is that MS needs the PR and the performance advantage of the hardware feature set(assuming if it's actually there) wouldn't be that much(my experience tells me that it might offer up to 15% advantage in the best ideal condition when doing the same task using the feature set, but only such tasks, and doesn't mean much in the overall performance gap just by looking at the hardwares) and won't make up for the raw power difference since you can technically run VLIW hardware that can beat the shit out of the GCN type hardware running the same effects due to raw power. Raw power always matters, clever coding or not, so I don't think the discussion or argument on it is required and have been quiet on the topic since I don't lean towards either console or company. ^_^; GCN is much more efficient though, nobody can doubt that, I personally really want to see what Nvidia will have with Maxwell.


Raw power is important, but not when it's never being utilised, for example AMD stated it themselves that the reason why they shifted from VLIW5 to VLIW4 was one of utilisation.
For example, VLIW5 (Radeon 5870) had incredible amounts of raw power, this was at a time where most games were only starting to make the shift to the Direct X 11 rendering path, so VLIW5 worked well in a Direct X 9 dominated world, as PC games shifted to Direct X 11, 1 out of every 5 of units in the array ended up being idle, which is a waste of transisters.
Enter: VLIW4 (Radeon 6970), basically they cut the 5th unit out of each array, but made each unit in the array more flexible, this allowed more units to be working at any one time, thus despite having less shader pipelines more were working at the same time, hence increasing overall performance.
Of course, it still wasn't perfect, parts of the GPU were still idling, but it was better than the situation the VLIW5 GPU's were in.
Enter: GCN.

Now, in a console environment, it doesn't really matter, developers will program to the particular nuances of the architecture, however I'm glad they didn't, it's bad enough the consoles are as anemic as they are, let alone one that is based on a 4 year old design, it would have only held back PC gaming even more.

Hence I said efficiency I can still make a 69 Mustang(non stock obviously) go faster than a new Shelby but I'd burn hell of a lot more gas lol. VLIW5 wouldn't have mattered as much for consoles though like you said, but GCN still greatly benefit consoles because of it's design even though it helps the PC environment even more. I'm just stating that whatever MS customized in their GPU wouldn't make up the gap in raw power especially when they are using such similar hardware to start with.



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fatslob-:O said:

Once again nothing has being concluded from that thread and whats more is a lack of evidence caused the thread to reach no conclusion regard DX 11.2 plus you still haven't answered my basic questions regarding GCN.

Q1: Why did AMD make a switch to GCN ?

Q2: What does PRT/Tiled rendering do ?

Addition Question: What was it that AMD was attempting to strive for creating GCN ?

I know the answers to all of them but you still don't know a thing about hardware or even software in your case of claiming to be a graduate.

Yes, I do.  Q1 isn't germain to the subject.  Q2. has been discussed in another thread.



Adinnieken said:
fatslob-:O said:

Once again nothing has being concluded from that thread and whats more is a lack of evidence caused the thread to reach no conclusion regard DX 11.2 plus you still haven't answered my basic questions regarding GCN.

Q1: Why did AMD make a switch to GCN ?

Q2: What does PRT/Tiled rendering do ?

Addition Question: What was it that AMD was attempting to strive for creating GCN ?

I know the answers to all of them but you still don't know a thing about hardware or even software in your case of claiming to be a graduate.

Yes, I do.  Q1 isn't germain to the subject.  Q2. has been discussed in another thread.

Don't dodge the question I want to hear your answer.



dahuman said:

Hence I said efficiency I can still make a 69 Mustang(non stock obviously) go faster than a new Shelby but I'd burn hell of a lot more gas lol. VLIW5 wouldn't have mattered as much for consoles though like you said, but GCN still greatly benefit consoles because of it's design even though it helps the PC environment even more. I'm just stating that whatever MS customized in their GPU wouldn't make up the gap in raw power especially when they are using such similar hardware to start with.

One of the reason as to why AMD went with GCN in the first place was to increase gpu compute performance and no matter how many times they customized VLIW they only kept failing to increase it. A disadvantage with VLIW is that it doesn't have any hardware scheduler and instead it relied mainly on the compiler. This meant that GCN could do the workloads in an out of order condition.

Another reason with the switch to GCN also meant achieving another goal such as hUMA where AMD wants to make it easier for programmers to more easily exploit the power of gpu compute. 



fatslob-:O said:
dahuman said:

Hence I said efficiency I can still make a 69 Mustang(non stock obviously) go faster than a new Shelby but I'd burn hell of a lot more gas lol. VLIW5 wouldn't have mattered as much for consoles though like you said, but GCN still greatly benefit consoles because of it's design even though it helps the PC environment even more. I'm just stating that whatever MS customized in their GPU wouldn't make up the gap in raw power especially when they are using such similar hardware to start with.

One of the reason as to why AMD went with GCN in the first place was to increase gpu compute performance and no matter how many times they customized VLIW they only kept failing to increase it. A disadvantage with VLIW is that it doesn't have any hardware scheduler and instead it relied mainly on the compiler. This meant that GCN could do the workloads in an out of order condition.

Another reason with the switch to GCN also meant achieving another goal such as hUMA where AMD wants to make it easier for programmers to more easily exploit the power of gpu compute. 

Yes, much better efficiency and more flexible with coding so it benefits consoles as well. I never denied those parts lol.



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dahuman said:
fatslob-:O said:
dahuman said:

Hence I said efficiency I can still make a 69 Mustang(non stock obviously) go faster than a new Shelby but I'd burn hell of a lot more gas lol. VLIW5 wouldn't have mattered as much for consoles though like you said, but GCN still greatly benefit consoles because of it's design even though it helps the PC environment even more. I'm just stating that whatever MS customized in their GPU wouldn't make up the gap in raw power especially when they are using such similar hardware to start with.

One of the reason as to why AMD went with GCN in the first place was to increase gpu compute performance and no matter how many times they customized VLIW they only kept failing to increase it. A disadvantage with VLIW is that it doesn't have any hardware scheduler and instead it relied mainly on the compiler. This meant that GCN could do the workloads in an out of order condition.

Another reason with the switch to GCN also meant achieving another goal such as hUMA where AMD wants to make it easier for programmers to more easily exploit the power of gpu compute. 

Yes, much better efficiency and more flexible with coding so it benefits consoles as well. I never denied those parts lol.

I know that but in this case the GCN architecture pretty much almost always beats the VLIW in almost all cases so it's not about raw power completely and even this applies to consoles as well, it's about utilization and VLIW pretty much guarantees that you won't be able to completely harness its power in alot of workloads.



fatslob-:O said:
dahuman said:
fatslob-:O said:
dahuman said:

Hence I said efficiency I can still make a 69 Mustang(non stock obviously) go faster than a new Shelby but I'd burn hell of a lot more gas lol. VLIW5 wouldn't have mattered as much for consoles though like you said, but GCN still greatly benefit consoles because of it's design even though it helps the PC environment even more. I'm just stating that whatever MS customized in their GPU wouldn't make up the gap in raw power especially when they are using such similar hardware to start with.

One of the reason as to why AMD went with GCN in the first place was to increase gpu compute performance and no matter how many times they customized VLIW they only kept failing to increase it. A disadvantage with VLIW is that it doesn't have any hardware scheduler and instead it relied mainly on the compiler. This meant that GCN could do the workloads in an out of order condition.

Another reason with the switch to GCN also meant achieving another goal such as hUMA where AMD wants to make it easier for programmers to more easily exploit the power of gpu compute. 

Yes, much better efficiency and more flexible with coding so it benefits consoles as well. I never denied those parts lol.

I know that but in this case the GCN architecture pretty much almost always beats the VLIW in almost all cases so it's not about raw power completely and even this applies to consoles as well, it's about utilization and VLIW pretty much guarantees that you won't be able to completely harness its power in alot of workloads.

Sure it does, a Radeon 6950 will still rape a 8670M lol See what I did there?



dahuman said:
fatslob-:O said:
dahuman said:
fatslob-:O said:
dahuman said:

Hence I said efficiency I can still make a 69 Mustang(non stock obviously) go faster than a new Shelby but I'd burn hell of a lot more gas lol. VLIW5 wouldn't have mattered as much for consoles though like you said, but GCN still greatly benefit consoles because of it's design even though it helps the PC environment even more. I'm just stating that whatever MS customized in their GPU wouldn't make up the gap in raw power especially when they are using such similar hardware to start with.

One of the reason as to why AMD went with GCN in the first place was to increase gpu compute performance and no matter how many times they customized VLIW they only kept failing to increase it. A disadvantage with VLIW is that it doesn't have any hardware scheduler and instead it relied mainly on the compiler. This meant that GCN could do the workloads in an out of order condition.

Another reason with the switch to GCN also meant achieving another goal such as hUMA where AMD wants to make it easier for programmers to more easily exploit the power of gpu compute. 

Yes, much better efficiency and more flexible with coding so it benefits consoles as well. I never denied those parts lol.

I know that but in this case the GCN architecture pretty much almost always beats the VLIW in almost all cases so it's not about raw power completely and even this applies to consoles as well, it's about utilization and VLIW pretty much guarantees that you won't be able to completely harness its power in alot of workloads.

Sure it does, a Radeon 6950 will still rape a 8670M lol See what I did there?

LOL that was funny but that has more to do with how much power the 6950 sucks up compared to a laptop GPU.



fatslob-:O said:
dahuman said:
fatslob-:O said:

I know that but in this case the GCN architecture pretty much almost always beats the VLIW in almost all cases so it's not about raw power completely and even this applies to consoles as well, it's about utilization and VLIW pretty much guarantees that you won't be able to completely harness its power in alot of workloads.

Sure it does, a Radeon 6950 will still rape a 8670M lol See what I did there?

LOL that was funny but that has more to do with how much power the 6950 sucks up compared to a laptop GPU.

That's my point to start with ^_^;



dahuman said:
fatslob-:O said:
dahuman said:
fatslob-:O said:
 

I know that but in this case the GCN architecture pretty much almost always beats the VLIW in almost all cases so it's not about raw power completely and even this applies to consoles as well, it's about utilization and VLIW pretty much guarantees that you won't be able to completely harness its power in alot of workloads.

Sure it does, a Radeon 6950 will still rape a 8670M lol See what I did there?

LOL that was funny but that has more to do with how much power the 6950 sucks up compared to a laptop GPU.

That's my point to start with ^_^;

^^