^ Well said but the problem is that the religious texts, taboos, and commands get "set in stone" and now so much stuff that no longer fits the times is clung to because the religious laws are considered inviolable. For instance, even though Christians got out of most of the O.T. laws because of the "Jesus said so" amendment, there's a lot that still doesn't match the times.

Nth said: Parokki said: My favorite instance of trying to apply logic to religion was a monk in 11th or 12th century Europe, who used the ancient Greek arts of logic and reason to prove without a shred of doubt that God indeed existed. Apparently he was pretty good as far as medieval thinkers go. However, the time wasn't quite ready for him, and he was accused of heresy because "only the Bible may be used to justify Bible!" A century earlier he might've been in more serious trouble, but managed to get out of it by renouncing his heresies and burning his books. I believe that the person you are referring to is Origen Adamantius.

Nah, isn't him. The guy I'm thinking about lived somewhere between the years 1000 and 1250 CE. The whole point of the chapter was to point out how society's reaction to heretics changed a lot during the time period by looking at the stories of three scholars, one from each century, with ideas the Church didn't like. 

I should probably look him up again, and remember this stuff better if I intend to go around spreading it. =/

redspear said: kergeten said: kergeten said: A subject of thought for everyone! What good has religion ever done exclusively ( meaning that it did before anyone else and despite everone else) and without outside influences. Hard to think huh? Now what bad has religion ever done? Hmmm, sorry I don't have all night to write a post on that matter. Won't anyone answer my questions? Yes, I'm looking at you Kazadoom. Religion has done a ton of good even if you have an athiestic viewpoint it is possible ot see that. For starters it initially explained the unexplainable. To some extent it still does today. For example there are secluded tribes of people tha tlive in Indonesia during the time of the tsunami a few years ago they all ran to higher ground because there religion told them that when the world tree shook the water would come ashore and they would need to get away form it. In the old testement the rule not to eat pork was there because pork could make you sick(trichinosis) the rules about how to deal with people who were sick prevent people from catching comminicable diseases. it also put to rest people mind about questions that mankind has always asked why am I here or how did the world come about. It did so with a certainity to that satisfied most people and let them focus on the stuff they needed to do. Even the concept of go forth and multiply greatly encouraged agrarian cultures. there is a lot that religion has done right. However it is easy to overlook since a lot times religion is misused by power seeking people who don't really care or are egomaniacal because they think they are god's A list either way not good.

Sorry but you're wrong, wrong, wrong

For starters it initially explained the unexplainable.

Yeah thing is that explanation led to the burning of withches and and to death of so many plague victimes who trusted the church with a cure, and banned any other explanations like say the one's that mattered.( mediavel christianity was completely against any form of medical research)

Second al those things you just stated arent part of religion, they are part of local tradition, completely diferent things.

Third it also put to rest people mind about questions that mankind has always asked why am I here or how did the world come about. It did so with a certainity to that satisfied most people and let them focus on the stuff they needed to do

Yes and the answer was, if youre poor you stai poor no matter what,you shoul listen to the church no matter how ville and corrupt it gets, and the king who is despot is sent from god, oh and you're a slave beacouse god said so and you should never  question that.

Like I said religion has done nothing good that other non religios people haven't done first, in fact the church was always behind secular society with anything having to do with basic human rights and still is( in fact it was very much against it).

Anyone else want to offer an answer?

BTW Why is anyone even debating the existance of God when the church tht created it and is permanently associeted with it has done so much evil and hasnt served any of humanity's needs, and the book sustaining its existance is not only morally and ethically unacceptable by todays standards but is also just downright false.

When dealing with something as absolute as the concept  GOd, the moment you find a single flaw in the book procliming the existance of God, and the institution sustaing it, is the moment you disprove GOD altogheter. Does not anyone see the geniuos simplicity of my thinking ? lol kiding. or am I?

 

What does religion have to do with the existence of god? Next thing someone is going to prove the existence of Obi-Wan. O ye of little faith.

Final-Fan said: ^ Well said but the problem is that the religious texts, taboos, and commands get "set in stone" and now so much stuff that no longer fits the times is clung to because the religious laws are considered inviolable. For instance, even though Christians got out of most of the O.T. laws because of the "Jesus said so" amendment, there's a lot that still doesn't match the times.

yeah this is true as well but as I say. You shouldn't go down a superhighway in an Oxcart. As for the other post. religon is tradition, it changed wildly in the early years but you can't just discount what it did for a whole group of people because you think religion or belief in god casues harm. Newton, Einstein, Heisenberg, Faraday, Boyle, Sir Francis Bacon, Planck, Kelvin, Descartes, and many all believed in god. It doesn't inhibit anyones ability to make the world a better place in some cases it helps in others it hurts but it all comes down to a personal understanding of your religion.

The Bible explained that there were 3 continents and that the earth was flat. Just a small sampling of "god's wisdom" back in the day. He should've went to school this god character...

kergeten said: redspear said: kergeten said: kergeten said: A subject of thought for everyone! What good has religion ever done exclusively ( meaning that it did before anyone else and despite everone else) and without outside influences. Hard to think huh? Now what bad has religion ever done? Hmmm, sorry I don't have all night to write a post on that matter. Won't anyone answer my questions? Yes, I'm looking at you Kazadoom. Religion has done a ton of good even if you have an athiestic viewpoint it is possible ot see that. For starters it initially explained the unexplainable. To some extent it still does today. For example there are secluded tribes of people tha tlive in Indonesia during the time of the tsunami a few years ago they all ran to higher ground because there religion told them that when the world tree shook the water would come ashore and they would need to get away form it. In the old testement the rule not to eat pork was there because pork could make you sick(trichinosis) the rules about how to deal with people who were sick prevent people from catching comminicable diseases. it also put to rest people mind about questions that mankind has always asked why am I here or how did the world come about. It did so with a certainity to that satisfied most people and let them focus on the stuff they needed to do. Even the concept of go forth and multiply greatly encouraged agrarian cultures. there is a lot that religion has done right. However it is easy to overlook since a lot times religion is misused by power seeking people who don't really care or are egomaniacal because they think they are god's A list either way not good. Sorry but you're wrong, wrong, wrong For starters it initially explained the unexplainable. Yeah thing is that explanation led to the burning of withches and and to death of so many plague victimes who trusted the church with a cure, and banned any other explanations like say the one's that mattered.( mediavel christianity was completely against any form of medical research) Second al those things you just stated arent part of religion, they are part of local tradition, completely diferent things. Third it also put to rest people mind about questions that mankind has always asked why am I here or how did the world come about. It did so with a certainity to that satisfied most people and let them focus on the stuff they needed to do Yes and the answer was, if youre poor you stai poor no matter what,you shoul listen to the church no matter how ville and corrupt it gets, and the king who is despot is sent from god, oh and you're a slave beacouse god said so and you should never question that. Like I said religion has done nothing good that other non religios people haven't done first, in fact the church was always behind secular society with anything having to do with basic human rights and still is( in fact it was very much against it). Anyone else want to offer an answer?

(A) You're cherry-picking for all the bad religion has done while not bothering to look for the good it has done. 

(B) The bigger problem, though, I suspect, is that you are comparing religion to science or humanism and finding religion wanting.  Sure.  But we haven't had true science until the last few hundred years, and before that, what?  Nothing, that's what.  Humanism has older roots, but it wasn't very successful until about the same time science took off.  We wouldn't have magically had science thousands of years earlier.  At worst, religion managed to hold back a much more comprehensive way of explaining the world and its wonders for a century or two.  The church actually had many very productive protoscientists among its ranks until it became obvious that "naturalism" was a mindshare competitor. 

People need explanations.  They NEED a worldview to operate within to be productive.  Most of the world religions have a peaceful message at the core.  Yes, it has too often been corrupted to do evil.  But how can you say that things would not have been even worse if they had had some other philosophy?  Perhaps one that would condone mass murder or slavery or whatever without needing to be twisted into a pretzel first? 

fkusumot said: What does religion have to do with the existence of god? Next thing someone is going to prove the existence of Obi-Wan. O ye of little faith.

 Indeed. Who would dare proving or disproving Chuck Norris then?! 'Yells for Chuck Norris fact knowers to hijack the thread before someone is murdered over it'

fkusumot said: What does religion have to do with the existence of god? Next thing someone is going to prove the existence of Obi-Wan. O ye of little faith.

Do you know anyone who has a firm convition in God and doesn't belong to any religion?

BTW I belive in God, just that i Don't believe anything the church or the bible or any religios text has to say.

Better said I belive in a Universal order that most mere mortals could only define as God.