By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General - Evidence for the existence of God

cleveland124 said:

I'm too religious to envisioning killing a man.


Funny, Religion has been used as a tool for killing more than anything else. I say used as a tool, because the person asking for the killing is usually doing it for power, not god. He just uses god as the motivator to get people to kill and die for him.

To answer your question, I would never kill a man, unless he was going to kill me, my family, or someone else. If he had killed my family and I could not prevent it, and I knew he would never kill again, I would not kill him even if I had the chance. If he was free, and it was known he would kill more people if I did not kill him (unlikely, as I would have no way of knowing that) not killing him would then in turn be me killing more people. In that case, I would kill him.

So there are justifications for it, but if everyone lived my the code I live buy, it would be a much less violent place, and my world is not governed by God. 

And back to your cats and dogs thing. The cat kills to hunt. In the wild, he would eat it. Cats in the wild do not kill and leave animals. 



Around the Network

Societies create their own morals.  If you think that people that believe in God aren't immoral, then you're delusional.  Ask the Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland about how they interpret their similar religious texts.  Ask the Shiites and the Sunnis.  You could take one sentence and have it interpreted many different ways.  Ask Democrats and Republicans how they interpret the second amendment in the U.S. constitution.  If you could ask the founding fathers of the U.S. about their justification for slavery based on the statement that all men are created equal, you would have received some very interesting answers.  Take any religious text, which is false and yet is a human work of art, and watch the many different interpretations that have bloomed.  It's because art is personal.



cleveland124 said:
CrashMan said:

Proof of the non-existance of a Christian god:

The main issue with a Christian god is all of the classifications christians have given him "Omnipotent, Omnipressent, Perfect, ever lasting"

The problem here is that all these things are inherantly contradictory.  How can a being that is all powerful be classified (or even truely be) anything else.  If something is all powerful, they have the power to do anything, including not existing, not being everywhere, and the power to make mistakes.  If you say "God can't make mistakes" you are limiting his power.  If you say "God can make mistakes" you are saying he is imperfect.

There is one absolute proof of the non-existance of omnipotence that I came up with (at least I have never heard an example otherwise)

If God is all powerful, he has the power to create a person that has absolute free will.  However, upon creating said being, he would not have the power to make that person DO anything without taking his free will away.  If it were possible to take the free will away, the person would not have had absolute free will to begin with.

So it is impossible for omnipotence to exist as it is impossible to force a being with free will to do something it chooses not to.


http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11251c.htm

While it is true that there are things that God will not do, it's not that he can't do them.  This point has been debated by philosophers and isn't quite a proof for the non-existence of God.


No, a god CAN'T force an absolutely free willed person to do something.  Its not possible.

How do you know that 'god' can do these things but won't? 

and that is NOT what omniopotence is.  Its 'omni' mean all, or in every way, and 'potent' meaning power.  That is a skewed definition to fit what they want it to fit.

Can god make a mistake?
Can god not exist?
Can god not know something?
Can god be absent from any place?

CAN he do these things?



I am a Gauntlet Adventurer.

I strive to improve my living conditions by hoarding gold, food, and sometimes keys and potions. I love adventure, fighting, and particularly winning - especially when there's a prize at stake. I occasionally get lost inside buildings and can't find the exit. I need food badly. What Video Game Character Are You?

Mega Man 9 Challenges: 74%

Waltz Tango Jitterbug Bust a move Headbanging
Bunny Hop Mr. Trigger Happy Double Trouble Mr. Perfect Invincible
Almost Invincible No Coffee Break Air Shoes Mega Diet Encore
Peacekeeper Conservationist Farewell To Arms Gamer's Day Daily Dose
Whomp Wiley! Truly Addicted! Truly Hardcore! Conqueror Vanquisher
Destroyer World Warrior Trusty Sidearm Pack Rat Valued Customer
Shop A Holic Last Man Standing Survivor Hard Rock Heavy Metal
Speed Metal Fantastic 9 Fully Unloaded Blue Bomber Eco Fighter
Marathon Fight Quick Draw G Quick Draw C Quick Draw S Quick Draw H
Quick Draw J Quick Draw P Quick Draw T Quick Draw M Quick Draw X
cleveland124 said:
CrashMan said:

Proof of the non-existance of a Christian god:

The main issue with a Christian god is all of the classifications christians have given him "Omnipotent, Omnipressent, Perfect, ever lasting"

The problem here is that all these things are inherantly contradictory.  How can a being that is all powerful be classified (or even truely be) anything else.  If something is all powerful, they have the power to do anything, including not existing, not being everywhere, and the power to make mistakes.  If you say "God can't make mistakes" you are limiting his power.  If you say "God can make mistakes" you are saying he is imperfect.

There is one absolute proof of the non-existance of omnipotence that I came up with (at least I have never heard an example otherwise)

If God is all powerful, he has the power to create a person that has absolute free will.  However, upon creating said being, he would not have the power to make that person DO anything without taking his free will away.  If it were possible to take the free will away, the person would not have had absolute free will to begin with.

So it is impossible for omnipotence to exist as it is impossible to force a being with free will to do something it chooses not to.


http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11251c.htm

While it is true that there are things that God will not do, it's not that he can't do them.  This point has been debated by philosophers and isn't quite a proof for the non-existence of God.


 Sorry my friend, but that link is just a cry for rationality. It's to try and fit a square peg into a round hole.

 If God gives me free will, and has the power to take it away, I DO NOT HAVE FREE WILL. Period. There is no debate around it. No philosophical explanation to cast it aside. It can't be done.

God cannot have the power to grant me free will and be all powerful. He can't be both, no matter what words you fill you head with to try and justify it away.

It's like the old one "Does God have the power to make a mountain he can't move?"



^ ah, sweet sweet sanity



I am a Gauntlet Adventurer.

I strive to improve my living conditions by hoarding gold, food, and sometimes keys and potions. I love adventure, fighting, and particularly winning - especially when there's a prize at stake. I occasionally get lost inside buildings and can't find the exit. I need food badly. What Video Game Character Are You?

Mega Man 9 Challenges: 74%

Waltz Tango Jitterbug Bust a move Headbanging
Bunny Hop Mr. Trigger Happy Double Trouble Mr. Perfect Invincible
Almost Invincible No Coffee Break Air Shoes Mega Diet Encore
Peacekeeper Conservationist Farewell To Arms Gamer's Day Daily Dose
Whomp Wiley! Truly Addicted! Truly Hardcore! Conqueror Vanquisher
Destroyer World Warrior Trusty Sidearm Pack Rat Valued Customer
Shop A Holic Last Man Standing Survivor Hard Rock Heavy Metal
Speed Metal Fantastic 9 Fully Unloaded Blue Bomber Eco Fighter
Marathon Fight Quick Draw G Quick Draw C Quick Draw S Quick Draw H
Quick Draw J Quick Draw P Quick Draw T Quick Draw M Quick Draw X
Around the Network

I have found evidence of god!



^ more probable than a christian view of god



I am a Gauntlet Adventurer.

I strive to improve my living conditions by hoarding gold, food, and sometimes keys and potions. I love adventure, fighting, and particularly winning - especially when there's a prize at stake. I occasionally get lost inside buildings and can't find the exit. I need food badly. What Video Game Character Are You?

Mega Man 9 Challenges: 74%

Waltz Tango Jitterbug Bust a move Headbanging
Bunny Hop Mr. Trigger Happy Double Trouble Mr. Perfect Invincible
Almost Invincible No Coffee Break Air Shoes Mega Diet Encore
Peacekeeper Conservationist Farewell To Arms Gamer's Day Daily Dose
Whomp Wiley! Truly Addicted! Truly Hardcore! Conqueror Vanquisher
Destroyer World Warrior Trusty Sidearm Pack Rat Valued Customer
Shop A Holic Last Man Standing Survivor Hard Rock Heavy Metal
Speed Metal Fantastic 9 Fully Unloaded Blue Bomber Eco Fighter
Marathon Fight Quick Draw G Quick Draw C Quick Draw S Quick Draw H
Quick Draw J Quick Draw P Quick Draw T Quick Draw M Quick Draw X
Zucas said:

Miracles is the works of ignorance.  Just cause we don't understand what happened doesn't mean it can't be explained.  LIke what people attribute to ghosts.  People think because we can't explain things that it has to be something supernatural or superhuman.  It's most likely not, it's just we aren't smart enough to understand it, yet or possibly never.  I don't understand how a brain transmits things into different smells, but that doesn't mean their isn't an explanation. 


Your argument is like me saying "Just cause we can't prove God doesn't mean he doesn't exist". And calling people ignorant for thier beliefs (aka beliefs in miracles) is just as ignorant. Lets look at some other miracles or "unexplained phenomenons".

Go research about Therese Neumann. Who went with out eating only but the holy communion. Thier where many observations to this and no knows how she survived many years.  http://www.thereseneumann.de/thereseenglish/index.htm  she also went through the stigmata, she healed, and had visions.

How about our lady of guadalupe. How the painting rests on a abron (or tilma) which was made from ayate fiber from a cactus plant. A type of apron that would only last 20 years, yet after 450 years the picture still looks fresh. http://www.geocities.com/franciscanhistory/OLOG.html  You don't have to read the history if you don't want too. But go down the page and read the scientific data.

 How about the apparitions of the virgin mary. It wasn't just mexico who had apparitions but they have been recorded all over the world (also notice how she's appeared differnet ,as in skin/eye color, to each culture) in asia, south america, europe, africa, north america and australia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrines_to_the_Virgin_Mary .

This are just a few. Thiers thousands including exorcisms, stigmatas, future visions, healing, teleportation, and  much more. I'm not here to change people's oppinions about stuff. I'm just saying "hey check this stuff out" its pretty interesting.



Though I agree in the existence of God, but, no matter what you show a person who is needs proof will need to actually see God to believe. So, this is really a pointless argument. Just accept that everyone has their own flavors in life.

Some people like purple drink, some like Sunny D.



I would just like to point out that I didn't prove the non-existance of any god, just the christian view of god. I have yet to see or think of a true proof of the non existance of any god.

But I don't believe that we should "Let people believe what they want to believe." I think discussion, debate, and philosophy is important as we should be trying to reach the truth in all issues (by reason, facts, and logic, not from a book)

I have been through the rigors of religion, even argued with athiests when I was younger. But you HAVE to have an open mind and truely consider these things. I have changed what I believe about the issue numerous times because I was open to change and willing to hear all sides. I doubt the same can be said about the religious zealots (no matter what the degree.)



I am a Gauntlet Adventurer.

I strive to improve my living conditions by hoarding gold, food, and sometimes keys and potions. I love adventure, fighting, and particularly winning - especially when there's a prize at stake. I occasionally get lost inside buildings and can't find the exit. I need food badly. What Video Game Character Are You?

Mega Man 9 Challenges: 74%

Waltz Tango Jitterbug Bust a move Headbanging
Bunny Hop Mr. Trigger Happy Double Trouble Mr. Perfect Invincible
Almost Invincible No Coffee Break Air Shoes Mega Diet Encore
Peacekeeper Conservationist Farewell To Arms Gamer's Day Daily Dose
Whomp Wiley! Truly Addicted! Truly Hardcore! Conqueror Vanquisher
Destroyer World Warrior Trusty Sidearm Pack Rat Valued Customer
Shop A Holic Last Man Standing Survivor Hard Rock Heavy Metal
Speed Metal Fantastic 9 Fully Unloaded Blue Bomber Eco Fighter
Marathon Fight Quick Draw G Quick Draw C Quick Draw S Quick Draw H
Quick Draw J Quick Draw P Quick Draw T Quick Draw M Quick Draw X