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Forums - Microsoft - Update: Xbox One 12GB RAM upgrade debunked by Microsoft

Mr Puggsly said:
All you naysayers forget MS added a headset!

Surely they can throw in a few more gigerbytes of RAM!

The issue is not costs... it is changes in the hardware design and 12GB is hard to implement than 16GB



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justinian said:
daredevil.shark said:
Have anyone seen this?

http://n4g.com/news/1329424/xbox-one-12gb-memory-upgrade-rumor-officially-shot-down-by-microsoft


I was waiting for this. Thanks. Some people have no idea of how the manufacturing process works. Seem to think you can just change specs "overnight" and it's that easy. Systems are already on the production line.


When epic games told microsoft to double the xbox 360 ram it cost microsoft $0.5 billion.



halil23 said:
I liked the follow up question on Twitter
"Another question..why another big external power brick? It looks like the console is big enough to hold a power supply."

So true!!


I was surprised to see that as well.  I expected it with Nintendo as that's part of how they keep their consoles so small, but the Xone is already the biggest of the next gen consoles so now I'm curious why they thought it was best to have a brick.  Perhaps they're just being over conservative with the space because of the heating issues of the first 360s.



...

Torillian said:
halil23 said:
I liked the follow up question on Twitter
"Another question..why another big external power brick? It looks like the console is big enough to hold a power supply."

So true!!


I was surprised to see that as well.  I expected it with Nintendo as that's part of how they keep their consoles so small, but the Xone is already the biggest of the next gen consoles so now I'm curious why they thought it was best to have a brick.  Perhaps they're just being over conservative with the space because of the heating issues of the first 360s.


That was my intitial thought.



I LOVE paying for Xbox Live! I also love that my love for it pisses off so many people.

Several months until console launch?



Talal said:
I will permaban myself if the game releases in 2014.

in reference to KH3 release date

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walsufnir said:
Nyleveia said:
 

There is a reason why the memory will not sufficiently be used to be worth adding, that being that the supporting hardware does not have the bandwidth to use the ram effectively, the APU does not have the raw power required to drive the data bandwidth needed to make adding additional memory worthwhile, and when your target framebuffer is 1920x1080 or less, theres only so much texture data that can be displayed before adding more resolution to the texture data becomes a waste of bandwidth - sure its nice to have pretty textures that are still pretty when your face is right up against a wall, but no developer is going to waste the system resources to add additional texture detail that for 99% of the time you will not see, for two very good reasons.

1) adding that level of texture quality is extremely costly on the creators side

2) the data thats put into memory needs to first be put in to memory to begin with - assuming they took 4gb of ram of system, and left 8gb for video - even if we assume they used only 2gb of ram for textures, to support these textures you would also need to bump up the lightmaps, bumpmaps and shader quality - resulting much of your memory available being used - AHA! i head you scream, SO IT DOES USE IT ALL!, yes, indeed it would, but then you would need to wait for that data to be loaded from hard disk to memory, or from optical disk to mem, both of which would take a long time - and for the former, it would also mean that games take up a substantially greater amount of hard disk space and given that the xbox one has a fixed, non-swappable hard disk that would be a stupid choice.

But i digress, if any of you would like to point to *ANY* game, mods installed or otherwise on PC that uses more than 4gb of vram at 1080p then I will hold up my hands and say "okay, i might be wrong", but until then, youre just ignoring the reality of the situation.

 

System memory is used primarilly to load meshes, sound and textures that are not time critical, which are then passed along to the graphics unit to be processed, or placed in vram to be accessed faster when needed, this is an entirely abritrary process however, you can run a modern game on a pc with a decent graphics card with just 2GB of system ram, typically the system ram is used to stream game data from hdd to system ram to speed up load times and provide faster data pool switching but this is primarilly a result of the inefficiencies of a modular system, a closed system like a games console relies much less on this process than you are suggesting, because data can be loaded from fixed media directly into whichever memory pool the program defines - but the end result is the same, even if you split 8gb down the middle, a decent spec PC even with its inefficiences as a platform, with 4gb of video ram and 4gb of system ram, will still run games at 1080p perfectly fine and even then will still NOT FILL UP ALL 4GB OF VRAM.

Even if current engines magically "evolved" as you put it, there is a platau with regards to renderspace and framebuffer bandwidth, a large part of why there is still such a push for faster more powerful graphics cards isnt because engines demand it, its because modern monitors resolutions are getting higher, and with them the power and resources needed to feed that video data requirement grow - people who are still using a 1080p monitor and an old graphics card are still able to play modern games just fine.

But i will say it again

the PS4 and Xbox One, do not have the CPU or GPU power to use more than 6gb of vram effectively at 1080p, if you started pushing more texture data through the framebuffer you would just be deminishing the performance, 12gb of ram would not make the system better, 12gb of ram would impact the framerates in exchange for an extremely minor bump in graphical fidelity.


I will say it again: We are not talking about vram here, we are talking about ram in general. Unified ram it is called. It's not all about graphics. And why would ram effect framerates in any way? I sense a lot of misunderstanding here.

And no, engines do not "magically" evolve, they just do. We read several comments from devs already who said that they will adjust and improve their engines for next-gen and this will of course affect PC-games aswell.

Surely 3GB is more than enough for any OS requirement.



daredevil.shark said:
justinian said:
daredevil.shark said:
Have anyone seen this?

http://n4g.com/news/1329424/xbox-one-12gb-memory-upgrade-rumor-officially-shot-down-by-microsoft


I was waiting for this. Thanks. Some people have no idea of how the manufacturing process works. Seem to think you can just change specs "overnight" and it's that easy. Systems are already on the production line.


When epic games told microsoft to double the xbox 360 ram it cost microsoft $0.5 billion.


Of course. I forgot about that. Rumour had it at the time to be $1bn but who knows.

I am not sure if x360 was in mainstream production prior to launch when the the RAM upgrade happened.

With three months to lauuch I believe the xbone has long been rolling out thousands of embedded boards with 8GB DDR3 RAM. To suddenly change to 12GB RAM is a financial nightmare regardless if you have the enormous resources of MS, Google or Apple.



justinian said:
daredevil.shark said:
justinian said:
daredevil.shark said:
Have anyone seen this?

http://n4g.com/news/1329424/xbox-one-12gb-memory-upgrade-rumor-officially-shot-down-by-microsoft


I was waiting for this. Thanks. Some people have no idea of how the manufacturing process works. Seem to think you can just change specs "overnight" and it's that easy. Systems are already on the production line.


When epic games told microsoft to double the xbox 360 ram it cost microsoft $0.5 billion.


Of course. I forgot about that. Rumour had it at the time to be $1bn but who knows.

I am not sure if x360 was in mainstream production prior to launch when the the RAM upgrade happened.

With three months to lauuch I believe the xbone has long been rolling out thousands of embedded boards with 8GB DDR3 RAM. To suddenly change to 12GB RAM is a financial nightmare regardless if you have the enormous resources of MS, Google or Apple.


You are right. Epic games cost microsoft $1 billion.

http://www.1up.com/news/epic-games-cost-microsoft-billion



Guys I wouldn't say that using Albert Penello's twitter is conclusive. I've been tweeting him and Xbox Support and they have not been very clear on what exactly they mean by everything. Xbox Support claims they have no info on the rumor, Penello just keeps saying "Not going to 12 gb" which could be an intentional typo (12GB vs 12 gb mean totally different things), or whether MS may be going to some other value other than 8GB or 12GB. He has not answered me on those follow up questions.

I simply don't get why all MS people wouldn't come out and say the 12GB rumor is false or give a straight answer of "It's 8GB and that's final." If there is nothing to hide, why aren't they being clear and just burying the hatchet?

I'm definitely not trying to use this as some sort of conspiracy false hope long shot confirmation. I just don't think we should put this fully to rest until we get some 100% straight answers. Major Nelson is doing a podcast later today with Penello so maybe we will get more info then or at Gamescomm.



nightsurge said:

Guys I wouldn't say that using Albert Penello's twitter is conclusive. I've been tweeting him and Xbox Support and they have not been very clear on what exactly they mean by everything. Xbox Support claims they have no info on the rumor, Penello just keeps saying "Not going to 12 gb" which could be an intentional typo (12GB vs 12 gb mean totally different things), or whether MS may be going to some other value other than 8GB or 12GB. He has not answered me on those follow up questions.

I simply don't get why all MS people wouldn't come out and say the 12GB rumor is false or give a straight answer of "It's 8GB and that's final." If there is nothing to hide, why aren't they being clear and just burying the hatchet?

I'm definitely not trying to use this as some sort of conspiracy false hope long shot confirmation. I just don't think we should put this fully to rest until we get some 100% straight answers. Major Nelson is doing a podcast later today with Penello so maybe we will get more info then or at Gamescomm.

gotta believe