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Forums - Microsoft - Microsoft doesn't want to limit indie Xbox One RAM access - everybody gets "full pool of resources"

Adinnieken on 26 July 2013
ishiki said:

Generally speaking yes. But you're using the literal definition. Not the definition the industry uses for indie games. No one in the industy would say skyrim is an indie game. No one would say Final Fantasy is an indie game. Those games wouldn't be limited by Microsofts "Hypothetical barrier" so  thus wouldn't be included in M$ definition of indie.

What game has amazing production values, that fits what the industry typically uses the term indie?

The literal definition is the definition the industry uses, they just don't look at successful developers that are able to afford large or multiple development teams indie.  Small budget studios, or single developer studios are certainly in a different category from bigger studios.  I agree, but indie is a broad term.  That's the problem with saying "Indie developer".   

There have been hundreds of PSN and Xbox LIVE Arcade games that fall into that category. 



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Adinnieken on 26 July 2013
Soleron said:

Open system = runs arbitrary code. Develop any game freely = run arbitrary code. They're the same statement.

If you have enough access to code for the platform without needing to go via MS licensing, you can bundle the Java libraries/runtime or whatever with your code. You can add features by manually coding them for the CPU or the GPU shader compiler. 

There is no such thing as an OS feature any more if you add it to the game code. Any programmer can tell you that.

I'm sorry, that is patently false. 

You cannot install components to the OS.  The OS is closed.  You have access to the APIs, you have access to the hardware, you have the ability to use outside services through TCP/IP, but the OS is closed.





Soleron on 26 July 2013
Adinnieken said:
Soleron said:

Open system = runs arbitrary code. Develop any game freely = run arbitrary code. They're the same statement.

If you have enough access to code for the platform without needing to go via MS licensing, you can bundle the Java libraries/runtime or whatever with your code. You can add features by manually coding them for the CPU or the GPU shader compiler. 

There is no such thing as an OS feature any more if you add it to the game code. Any programmer can tell you that.

I'm sorry, that is patently false. 

You cannot install components to the OS.  The OS is closed.  You have access to the APIs, you have access to the hardware, you have the ability to use outside services through TCP/IP, but the OS is closed.

I didn't say inside the OS. I mean you can install anything you can think of required for your game to run.

Give me an example of something you couldn't do.



Adinnieken on 26 July 2013
Soleron said:
Adinnieken said:
Soleron said:

Open system = runs arbitrary code. Develop any game freely = run arbitrary code. They're the same statement.

If you have enough access to code for the platform without needing to go via MS licensing, you can bundle the Java libraries/runtime or whatever with your code. You can add features by manually coding them for the CPU or the GPU shader compiler. 

There is no such thing as an OS feature any more if you add it to the game code. Any programmer can tell you that.

I'm sorry, that is patently false. 

You cannot install components to the OS.  The OS is closed.  You have access to the APIs, you have access to the hardware, you have the ability to use outside services through TCP/IP, but the OS is closed.

I didn't say inside the OS. I mean you can install anything you can think of required for your game to run.

Give me an example of something you couldn't do.

OK, you can't install Java.  There.  That was simple. 

Java applications won't run on any computer where the Java Runtime isn't installed.  Doesn't matter how you programmed it.  Doesn't matter if you compiled it.  It won't run.  If you don't have access to the OS, you can't install the runtime or for that matter to get Java to work.

The same is true with .Net.  If the Xbox One didn't support .Net development out of the box, you wouldn't be able to add .Net to the Xbox One and make it work.  The runtime has to be installed on the device before it'll work. 



Soleron on 26 July 2013
Adinnieken said:
...

OK, you can't install Java.  There.  That was simple. 

Java applications won't run on any computer where the Java Runtime isn't installed.  Doesn't matter how you programmed it.  Doesn't matter if you compiled it.  It won't run.  If you don't have access to the OS, you can't install the runtime or for that matter to get Java to work.

Yes, you can. Put the runtime. On the game disc. Rewrite it so it doesn't need "installed" but just works from the game disc (it's open source).

The same is true with .Net.  If the Xbox One didn't support .Net development out of the box, you wouldn't be able to add .Net to the Xbox One and make it work.  The runtime has to be installed on the device before it'll work. 

But you can do everything DotNet does, including reimplementing its API (Mono has done most of the work here), without an install.