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Forums - Microsoft - Better Know A Console: Xbox One's HyperVisor OS

Machiavellian on 03 August 2013
JoeTheBro said:
Machiavellian said:
JoeTheBro said:
This is kinda crazy. The advantage of using real memory instead of virtual memory for suspended applications offers such little improvement. Only reason it could be smart would be if Microsoft doesn't want to suspend apps but why would they do that? Best I can think of is playing a game with internet snapped to the side while a second game is in matchmaking, the youtube app is downloading a video, and you are talking on skype. Is this rare situation worth it?

This kinda goes back to xbone verse ps4 ram I guess. DDDR3 is cheap so they could get a lot of it. Back then the PS4 only had 2GB of ram so Microsoft logically thought the sky was the limit with multitasking. Why would they worry when they had so much extra? Then Sony jumped to 4 and again to 8. Now Microsoft's ram plans just seem wastefull.

I believe the Hyper-V tech expecially the one that runs everything is just a management type of system.  One of the big benefits is that the main Hyper V can dynamically turn on and off cores on the fly, management memory and resources.  This gives the X1 the ability to run in a bunch of power states for concerving power and resources and management between Games and Applications.  Its this separation that allows the games part to exist out side of the whole system and work independantly of whats going on within the X1.

Also one of the biggest things only on person has stated is that they Hyper-V tech allows MS to not have to worry about backwards compatibility.  This is one reason why we say different Development systems running X1 games.  If people remember E3 where Titans were running X1 development kits.  With this tech, the dependancy for true hardware becomes more abstract, probably ushering in that digital age where you can bring up different VMs to run diffeerent systems like the 360.

Another benefit of the hyper-V tech is the snap feature which regular MP will not be so easy to replicate.  With both running side by side you can have a companion app running to your main game which is something I am wondering if we will see on the X1 from developers.  One game that sounds like it will go this direction is Quantum Break.  You can have the TV episode running while you also have the game running and both can talk to each other and take ques thus producing something very unique.

I'm sorry but did you mean to quote someone else? I was talking about their decision to use physical memory instead of virtual for background apps. That has nothing to do with ANYTHING you said. lol

lol, true.  Sometimes I get quote happy



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Alby_da_Wolf on 04 August 2013

Very interesting. If MS already does this on its next console, I guess next versions of Windows desktop will run as well by default (*) as Virtual Machines on MS HyperVisor, just like it optionally can now, either on MS HyperVisor or 3rd party ones. If MS will allow even home users to run different instances of Windows, it would be great for gamers and also for people liking to try new HW and SW: even a limit of three instances of Windows would be enough, one would be used for productivity, another could be kept as clean and lean as possible to maximise games performances and a third could be used for tests before installing new SW on any of the main two. It would be great also to prevent virus infections, suspicious SW could be installed on the test VM before accepting it on the main ones, should a virus strike, it could even be possible to totally erase the infected VM and restoring a clean one.
I guess I know what will be able of persuading me to upgrade from Windows 7. Will it be Win 9 or Win 10?

(*) "by default" is important for games: if optional, game devs would always write games that run at their best only if running on the OS directly communicating with HW. Also, running by default as VM would greatly improve HW-OS-SW mutual compatibility.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW!   


Adinnieken on 04 August 2013
Alby_da_Wolf said:
Very interesting. If MS already does this on its next console, I guess next versions of Windows desktop will run as well by default (*) as Virtual Machines on MS HyperVisor, just like it optionally can now, either on MS HyperVisor or 3rd party ones. If MS will allow even home users to run different instances of Windows, it would be great for gamers and also for people liking to try new HW and SW: even a limit of three instances of Windows would be enough, one would be used for productivity, another could be kept as clean and lean as possible to maximise games performances and a third could be used for tests before installing new SW on any of the main two. It would be great also to prevent virus infections, suspicious SW could be installed on the test VM before accepting it on the main ones, should a virus strike, it could even be possible to totally erase the infected VM and restoring a clean one.
I guess I know what will be able of persuading me to upgrade from Windows 7. Will it be Win 9 or Win 10?

(*) "by default" is important for games: if optional, game devs would always write games that run at their best only if running on the OS directly communicating with HW. Also, running by default as VM would greatly improve HW-OS-SW mutual compatibility.

If Windows was a closed system, sure.  There's a feature in Windows 8 that I believe will be evolved.  I believe it's even a feature of the Xbox One, but I don't know for sure.  However, I don't think visualization will be standard.



Alby_da_Wolf on 04 August 2013
Adinnieken said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:
Very interesting. If MS already does this on its next console, I guess next versions of Windows desktop will run as well by default (*) as Virtual Machines on MS HyperVisor, just like it optionally can now, either on MS HyperVisor or 3rd party ones. If MS will allow even home users to run different instances of Windows, it would be great for gamers and also for people liking to try new HW and SW: even a limit of three instances of Windows would be enough, one would be used for productivity, another could be kept as clean and lean as possible to maximise games performances and a third could be used for tests before installing new SW on any of the main two. It would be great also to prevent virus infections, suspicious SW could be installed on the test VM before accepting it on the main ones, should a virus strike, it could even be possible to totally erase the infected VM and restoring a clean one.
I guess I know what will be able of persuading me to upgrade from Windows 7. Will it be Win 9 or Win 10?

(*) "by default" is important for games: if optional, game devs would always write games that run at their best only if running on the OS directly communicating with HW. Also, running by default as VM would greatly improve HW-OS-SW mutual compatibility.

If Windows was a closed system, sure.  There's a feature in Windows 8 that I believe will be evolved.  I believe it's even a feature of the Xbox One, but I don't know for sure.  However, I don't think visualization will be standard.

If you're right, it could be a wasted opportunity, it could give many benefits, and most probably after the initial investment, successive dev costs could be reduced, not to mention that it could make a lot easier the convergence of desktop and mobile versions, aalthough about this latter thing, I guess that the biggest obstacle will always be MS wanting to keep the marketplace of mobile versions closed, while PC apps market is free.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW!