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Forums - Gaming - Understanding why Xbox One doesn't need GDDR5 RAM

disolitude on 26 June 2013
dsgrue3 said:
Wow you mean the console was built by balancing the individual components? Shocking.

I know I'm always surprised when I step into my car and the engine tears the chassis off the suspension because that seems to be a really common issue in every day life.

Let's all take a moment and thank MS for doing this, because everyone hasn't been doing this type of balancing act since the dawn of time.

In that case I wish everyone around here had the same understanding of these things as you do. With a bit less sarcasm though...



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Nem on 26 June 2013

disolitude, you have a point in that the Xbox1 doesnt need DDR5 because of the architecture its using. It would be indeed a waste and the RAM would be chocked by the other parts not keeping up.

With that said, theres nothing good about it. Its still inferior to what the PS4 offers. The fact that PS4 uses DDR5 and can take advantage of it is the hint that the architecture is superior. It would be a waste on the Xbox, but its a definite plus on the Playstation.

 

Wether some people like to admit or not, this WILL mean that multi platform titles will perform better on the PS4 as the textures will loads faster and there will be less pop in that there might be on the Xbox1. Not to mention smoother frame-rates, less screen tearing etc.



Mmmfishtacos on 26 June 2013
sales2099 said:

DDR5 is the new CELL

same shit, different gen


The cloud is the new cell. Better ram is a well know plus.



disolitude on 26 June 2013
theprof00 said:
This is a slightly skewed way of looking at the talking point.
Yes, people say xbox one is at a disadvantage for not using gddr5.
Yes, xbox one doesn't actually NEED gddr5 because it wouldn't be able to take advantage of the extra speed anyway.

So far the OP addresses that fine.
However, the argument isn't that '1 is at a disadvantage because it's not using gddr5', the argument is that '1 is at a disadvantage because ps4 DOES make use of gddr5, and xbox doesn't'

You're turning an argument of 'which overall console is better' into 'this console has parts relative to its performance'. Not that it's your fault for misinterpreting, but nobody is bragging about the RAM simply because it's faster. They're bragging because the ps4 is OVERALL faster, so fast, that it needs gddr5.

Then these people need to brag about better GPU performance.

I've seen some any posts around the internet that list better GPU and GDDR5 RAM as "+" for PS4. GDDR5 RAM and memory bandwidth by itself don't mean squat if GPU isn't able to make use of it. Its the same thing...



disolitude on 26 June 2013
Nem said:

disolitude, you have a point in that the Xbox1 doesnt need DDR5 because of the architecture its using. It would be indeed a waste and the RAM would be chocked by the other parts not keeping up.

With that said, theres nothing good about it. Its still inferior to what the PS4 offers. The fact that PS4 uses DDR5 and can take advantage of it is the hint that the architecture is superior. It would be a waste on the Xbox, but its a definite plus on the Playstation.

 

Wether some people like to admit or not, this WILL mean that multi platform titles will perform better on the PS4 as the textures will loads faster and there will be less pop in that there might be on the Xbox1. Not to mention smoother frame-rates, less screen tearing etc.

I usually have the "wait and see" approach when it comes to making bold claims like this... There is no way for me to calculate all of the variables involved and I don't want to look foolish later.



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disolitude on 26 June 2013
CGI-Quality said:
disolitude said:
Guys guys...GDDR5, the Cell...no need to continue arguing about that.

My point here is this...

Xbox one is an AMD GPU with 768 cores which puts it between HD 7770 and H7790 in terms of power.
Those cards come with GDDR5 RAM and Xbox One has higher memory bandwidth than both. It doesn't just need GDDR5 to make the most of the tech it has under the hood.

Indeed, because GDDR5 and the Cell have no correlation whatsoever.

To the meat of the topic: I agree that the X-One doesn't need GDDR5. Yes, DDR3 is, overall, inferior to GDDR5, and the PS4 will probably have substantially better looking exclusives from the likes of Naughty Dog and Sony Santa Monica, but it won't matter as much as some make it out, in the scheme of this console cycle.

Naughty dog and Santa monica may as well have better looking exclusives down the road, but it won't be because of GDDR5 RAM. It will be because PS4 has the GPU horsepower to utilize the extra memory bandwidth. If they put GDDR5 RAM in to PS4 and had the same GPU as Xbox One, they would hve absolutely no performance benefits.



theprof00 on 26 June 2013
disolitude said:
theprof00 said:
This is a slightly skewed way of looking at the talking point.
Yes, people say xbox one is at a disadvantage for not using gddr5.
Yes, xbox one doesn't actually NEED gddr5 because it wouldn't be able to take advantage of the extra speed anyway.

So far the OP addresses that fine.
However, the argument isn't that '1 is at a disadvantage because it's not using gddr5', the argument is that '1 is at a disadvantage because ps4 DOES make use of gddr5, and xbox doesn't'

You're turning an argument of 'which overall console is better' into 'this console has parts relative to its performance'. Not that it's your fault for misinterpreting, but nobody is bragging about the RAM simply because it's faster. They're bragging because the ps4 is OVERALL faster, so fast, that it needs gddr5.

Then these people need to brag about better GPU performance.

I've seen some any posts around the internet that list better GPU and GDDR5 RAM as "+" for PS4. GDDR5 RAM and memory bandwidth by itself don't mean squat if GPU isn't able to make use of it. Its the same thing...

Dis, it's just semantics.

As if the people you were talking to actually believed that gddr5 would make xb1 as fast as the ps4.

Unless you actually believe that people are saying that, I don't get the point of correcting them.



sergiodaly on 26 June 2013
disolitude said:

In terms of next gen console GPUs, below are the specs:

PS4 GPU Cores - 1152

Xbox One GPU Cores - 768

and

PS4 Peak Shader Throughput - 1.84 TFLOPS

Xbox One Peak Shader Throughput - 1.23 TFLOPS

 

Xbox One GPU has 50% less cores and 33% less peak shader throughput. Due to this, it needs less video bandwidth than PS4.

 

your math ain't right... there is a direct relation in cores/Shader Throughput, so -> 1152 -33% =~768 and 1.84Tflops - 33%=~1.23 Tflops

so by your statement, the same also applies to PS4, xbox one does not need GDDR5* but PS4 does benefit from having GDDR5. every body wins...

* at PS4 specifications, although it could use a slower (or smaller bus) version of GDDR5 and don't use eSRAM

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Nem on 26 June 2013
disolitude said:
Nem said:

disolitude, you have a point in that the Xbox1 doesnt need DDR5 because of the architecture its using. It would be indeed a waste and the RAM would be chocked by the other parts not keeping up.

With that said, theres nothing good about it. Its still inferior to what the PS4 offers. The fact that PS4 uses DDR5 and can take advantage of it is the hint that the architecture is superior. It would be a waste on the Xbox, but its a definite plus on the Playstation.

 

Wether some people like to admit or not, this WILL mean that multi platform titles will perform better on the PS4 as the textures will loads faster and there will be less pop in that there might be on the Xbox1. Not to mention smoother frame-rates, less screen tearing etc.

I usually have the "wait and see" approach when it comes to making bold claims like this... There is no way for me to calculate all of the variables involved and I don't want to look foolish later.


Its a safe assumption, but it will depend on how much a certain game pushes the hardware for it to be noticeable.



disolitude on 26 June 2013
sergiodaly said:
disolitude said:

In terms of next gen console GPUs, below are the specs:

PS4 GPU Cores - 1152

Xbox One GPU Cores - 768

and

PS4 Peak Shader Throughput - 1.84 TFLOPS

Xbox One Peak Shader Throughput - 1.23 TFLOPS

 

Xbox One GPU has 50% less cores and 33% less peak shader throughput. Due to this, it needs less video bandwidth than PS4.

 

your math ain't right... there is a direct relation in cores/Shader Throughput, so -> 1152 -33% =~768 and 1.84Tflops - 33%=~1.23 Tflops

so by your statement, the same also applies to PS4, xbox one does not need GDDR5* but PS4 does benefit from having GDDR5. every body wins...

* at PS4 specifications, although it could use a slower (or smaller bus) version of GDDR5 and don't use eSRAM


You're right. 33% all around... my bad. 

And yes, PS4 would be a pretty big design fail if they didn't have GDDR5 RAM. I don't believe for a single second that they were ever going to put a GPU like that in there and not implement GDDR5 RAM for it.