How do you view Snowden? | |||
| Hero | 163 | 73.76% | |
| Coward | 12 | 5.43% | |
| A threat to national security | 19 | 8.60% | |
| Snitch | 11 | 4.98% | |
| Snowden?? Heck is that?? | 16 | 7.24% | |
| Total: | 221 | ||
^^
Yes, I agree MTZehvor. We all accept some limits to our freedom when we live in a society, for the sake of the common good, but being constantly controlled in every action is way beyond accepting the minimum set of rules and laws that allow a society to exist.
| Calmador said: I keep hearing people use the terrible quote of "Those who are willing to give up liberty for security deserve neither." Whoever said that was stupid and yes I know its one of our founding fathers. The truth of the matter is that in any community we do give up liberty for security. When you walk down a sidewalk instead of freelying running around on the roads... you sir or maam are giving up liberty for security. When you obey the traffic light system where you go when you see a green light or stop when you see a red light. You are giving up your liberty for security. When Americans use dog leashes on their children... you sir or maam are giving up liberty for security. lol |
I agree completely. Pithy quotes do not make a sound argument. Also, almost every law and regulation is a tradeoff between freedom and security on some level.
So the important question is, are you getting a good deal for the freedom you're sacrificing?
So what if I told you that this man was going to follow you around for your own protection. He's going to watch every move you make, and he's going to keep a log of your all your activities in case we need to look them up later. In return, he's going to protect you from ever being struck by lightning. You'll still be vulnerable to car crashes, cancer, falling down stairs, being accidentally shot, and brain amoebas, but lightning will never harm you.
Good deal?
"The worst part about these reviews is they are [subjective]--and their scores often depend on how drunk you got the media at a Street Fighter event." — Mona Hamilton, Capcom Senior VP of Marketing
*Image indefinitely borrowed from BrainBoxLtd without his consent.
MTZehvor said:
The person you are referring to is Benjamin Franklin. I might add that the quote in question contains the phrase "essential liberty" instead of just "liberty." I highly doubt Benjamin Franklin would have objected to people waiting at stop lights, as the right to immediately travel wherever you want whenever is not what most people would classify as an essential liberty. The right to avoid having anything you say be monitored by the government? I believe Mr. Franklin would qualify that as an essential right, and the Bill of Rights seems to suggest so as well. Certainly, accountability and morality are huge issues in America today. Both of these have been major issues in every country ever since the beginning of civilization, and as I'm sure you've noticed, no one's been able to find a solution to the problem yet. There will always be people who are willing to do what some would qualify as "evil" in order to get ahead of others in life. People will lie, cheat, steal, and break both laws and unspoken rules in order to get ahead. No one has been able to solve this problem. The worst side of human nature means that, if given an opening, some people will hurt others if they can benefit from it (and a subset of these people will do it even if there's no benefit to them at all). If you want, you are welcome to stand there and point your finger at others for being immoral and the cause of trouble in our society. However, the reality is that it doesn't matter how much you point your finger; people will continue to be immoral regardless of what you do. The role of government, and part of our task as citizens, is to try and form a system of laws that best deals with human brokenness without giving so much control to the ones making the rules that they themselves become corrupt. Try as we might, we will never be able to fix human immorality. All we can do is build a system of government around said immorality and make the best out of a situation that will admittedly never be perfect. |
Reply to first paragraph
Just so you know... I'm against the government monitoring everything we say. My post was about the qoute. I thought it was really stupid and just couldn't resist replying.
I didn't talk about government monitoring us but you replied as if I did. Anyways, I was responding to an absolute kind of liberty so... nevermind.
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Reply to 2nd paragraph
I know the problem and I know the solution. I'll show you...
The problem is like the one I faced a long time ago. When was a teenager. I had a serious problem with racism against white people. I hated white people because of the horrible things "white people" had done in history. I wanted justice but where I reasoned justice should come from was a problem. Like so many people, (I'm sure) I figured I can determine what should be done. I knew what was right. And that is the problem.
That people can either think THEY can deterime exactly and in its wholeness, what is right and what should be done. Or, they might come to realize of the truth. The truth that we don't know what exactly should be done in its wholeness. We make ourselves Gods. That is the root of dictators and oppressors.
And then the cycle repeats itself... those that get oppressed... look around themselves and THEY think they can determine exactly what is right in its wholeness.
Its an endless cycle of evil, over and over again. This is why liberals, republicans, etc etc think they can change the world because they so passionatly believe they know what is right in its wholeness.
You can see it in this...
Why do evil things happen? This is what we ask because of the problem.
The answe is in this question.... Who does evil things? The answer should be obvious. Its you... everyone.
Yet, somehow, you .... everyone... thinks they, the problem makers, the evil doers, know how to solve the problem in its wholeness.
Notice I use the word wholeness. I use it because I do think we partially understand what should be done. I think its clear we have some knowldege of about that. When I say is rape wrong? Almost everyone agrees. When I say murder is wrong... everyone agrees. But, when I saying lying is wrong... some are so low to not agree. And you know considering rape... there are evolutionists that have some acceptance to it. A buddhist I spoke to once told me that rape is.... just something happens. Buddhist have some extent of acceptance of rape.
And you see I that's the problem creaping in... people without God trying to figure out what is right and wrong in its wholeness... turn out to be agreeing with evil. Finding an certain acceptance of evil.
The solution is God. But why God? I think the answer is self-evident because of what God says...when it comes to morals... God says, "NEVER DO EVIL and ALWAYS DO GOOD." This is something that is unique in the Christian faith among the major religions. The hindu says... good and evil are relative. The buddhist agrees while showing a certian kind of acceptance to rape. The Athiest nods in agreement that evil isn't so bad... sometimes. But, God practically says to the Christians,"Be holy."
Never accepting evil is the answer. Always accepting good is the answer. Acceptng God because God shows himself trust worthy when he says, "100% truth, 100% love 100% righteousness 100% justice ... where literally everyone else says... no there is room for evil... there's room for rape... a little lying and a little stealing.
This is one of the pinnacle reasons why God makes so much sense and I know he is the solution.
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Reply to 3rd paragraph
You honestly think that people pointing out what's wrong in society won't help someone? While on one hand, I completely agree that I won't matter because I don't believe I make the true change. I think God's spirit touching people's ives makes the change and with me willing to tell people that the standards of morality are not... half way... But the standards actually to NEVER lie, NEVER steal, NEVER look at women with lustful eyes. It changes people and I know it because it changed me. Where I once wondered about killing off anyone with white skin color... I don't anymore and instead say, "God bless him or her."
Your without a shadow of the doubt wrong. It changed me when I heard the Pastors preach. And when I seriously read the chapter Exodus 20 for the first time just so I can read the foundations or a great part of the foundations of more than half the bible which is the Old Testament. I read the 10 commandments, the foundation I'm talking about.... thou shalt have no other God.... thou shalt not have idols... thou shalt honor your father and mother... thou shalt not steal.. thou shal not murder... thou shalt not covet.. thou shall not lie.... I wondered. I wondered a lot about liberals... athiests... and the many skeptics out there. And then I said.."Why don't we believe this?"," Why are people against this?" I went from skeptical of God to skeptical of those against God.
And about the role of government... you know what would be better than the most... "invincible" and utteraly secure governmental system? A government that will do the right thing even if it had absolute power. And that goes back to morality. It's like DRM. Developers use it because consumers commit theft. What is better? The best DRM we can possibly make?... Or developers making no DRM what so ever and MOST consumers by they're very own will... never commiting theft via piratinng. I don't expect perfection but in other way to understand what I'm saying is... moral conduct trumps security because the purpose of security is to protect from immoral actions... no or almost no immoral actions... means security is less of an issue. I'm trying to show you the root problem.
You see the closer we get to that 100% truth,love,justice, etc etc ... the closer we get God... the better and it all starts with Jesus Christ. Do you see what I mean?
All gaming systems, consoles/PC, have thier perks... why fight over preferences? I like Coke and you like Pepsi, that's it, let's not fight over which toy we like best cause that's what they are. Is someone's preference in a toy important or is the relationship between you and your neighbor more important? Answer is obvious, but THE most important thing is your relationship with God almighty. God Bless you in Jesus's name.
I can communicate without talking... I can send a loved one money without actually sending money... and I can commit theft without the product disappearing, the point of theft is the point of theft not one of it's possible symptoms which is the product dissappearing. The thief wants to gain something without paying for it, that's the point of theft, the thief doesn't have to care or anybody else has to care if the product dissappears. The product dissappearing is just a possible symptom of theft. Gifts are sacrfices, in order to give a gift, it has to be a genuine sacrfice/gift, meaning a copy of the game isn't still in your PC. Piracy is theft and/or being a culprit of theft.
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