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Forums - Microsoft - The best explanation (so far) of the "cloud" advantage for Xbox One

disolitude said:
ethomaz said:

disolitude said:

Youre downplaying the importance of this.

This isn't anything new, but the fact free server hosting on a massive cloud infrastructure that Microsoft has is available to devs is new.

Sony can not offer this at this scale. They have to add servers for first party games and 3rd party games are SOL and have to fend for themselves.

Also, there may be single player benefits too. The only reason this is applied to multiplayer thus far is because no console is "always on" unless you're playing multiplayer. Xbox one is always online and similar calculations can be appied to single player. For example, Halo 5 team based and enemy AI for single player can easily use this and be much more advance than before.

MS already said every "offline" sinple-played game will run even without Cloud... when your internet goes down for example.


Yeah they also said that Forza 5 will have a default AI for computer cars on the disk, but when you're connected to the cloud the AI will calculate your driving style and learn how to pass you during the race.

So you will get a better experience with internet but game will be playable with no internet as well...

I can't wait for other games to utilize this as well. Play a game of Madden and instead of waiting for a roster update to get approved and released, maybe EA puts in the cloud similar to how other games did updates this gen. Big game between two top teams.. maybe have a cloud option to where more so than roster updates, you play the AI using the same strategy the real team just used. Or you could log on and play a "ghost" of someone in your league. Calls the same plays and has the same strategy of that user. EA and 2k tried this on PS2/Xbox but failed miserably. Could also work in shooters. I am expecting something like a ghost race you can already do on consoles, only more dynamic and actually responsive.



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I was sure the AI was loaded at the beginning of the race for forza.... basically instead of using the one on the disc it is loading drivatars of other players through the cloud.... that's how I got it.... so if you don't have a connection you get the basic AI if you do have a connection it loads AI from other players drivatars for a more human like experience....

@stefl1504about people with bad connection or not willing to pay for a good one, how is it supposed to make MS choose to not implement and push new techs????

with that reasoning smartphone companies shouldn't push 4g devices because some people don't have access to the 4g network ????

you'll be able to play the game offline just the same but much like they advertise some games being better with Kinect... they will probably do the same with cloud... "better with a cloud connection"
so everybody will have access to the core experience and the one than can will have the extra goodies available....

and cloud computing is not gimmick it's been here for years and expending every day and it is here to stay... that statement is plain stupid.... and yes it will become relevant in games sooner than later.... I'm sure I will die in a cloud dominated world I have no doubt about that....



disolitude said:

I think its up to developers to implement this so it works best for multiplayer, single player and doesn't impact the experience too much.

Lets use Forza single player as an example.

Race starts and the normal car AI is present. After 1 lap of collecting your driving patters, this data is sent to the cloud where microsoft calculates new AI enhancements that are applied to the existing AI and sends instructions back to your Xbox One. The game is running 1080p@60 on your console with no hiccups since these calculation isn't happening on your console. If internet isn't there, this doesn't happen and game still runs 1080p@60...

BTW...why is everyone so fascinated with this "internet goes down" idea? Like christ, my internet goes down once a month for a few minutes tops... Will my whole life be ruined if all of sudden internet isn't able to enhance the game experience for a minute or two?

Forza is a great example because it already shifts the graphics when you are runnin with 1 car at screen and 16 cars at screens... so I will try to show what will happen.

You are running Forza 5 with AI into the Cloud... the game uses a LOD model for car with high quality... then your internet get slow or down for few seconds (it is fast... that happened everyday... you have instabilities in internet connections and you are disconnected from the Live for few seconds... I play a lot MP and sometimes you are disconected and needs to start again... happened all the time)... so the games stop the Cloud AI and start the local one but before you are using all the resources for graphics (that a example) and now you need to use 5% of them to backup the Cloud stuffs in local... so the game shift the LOD model of the car for another with low quality to the game sustaind the 60fps.

That shift will give you a weird experience when happened but it's fime if this auto shift didn't show any slowdown or lag.



endimion said:
I was sure the AI was loaded at the beginning of the race for forza.... basically instead of using the one on the disc it is loading drivatars of other players through the cloud.... that's how I got it.... so if you don't have a connection you get the basic AI if you do have a connection it loads AI from other players drivatars for a more human like experience....

@stefl1504about people with bad connection or not willing to pay for a good one, how is it supposed to make MS choose to not implement and push new techs????

with that reasoning smartphone companies shouldn't push 4g devices because some people don't have access to the 4g network ????

you'll be able to play the game offline just the same but much like they advertise some games being better with Kinect... they will probably do the same with cloud... "better with a cloud connection"
so everybody will have access to the core experience and the one than can will have the extra goodies available....

and cloud computing is not gimmick it's been here for years and expending every day and it is here to stay... that statement is plain stupid.... and yes it will become relevant in games sooner than later.... I'm sure I will die in a cloud dominated world I have no doubt about that....

I'm looking for real-time AI based in realtime player actions but if you are using pre-loaded AI then yes.

That is the diffeence in smart AI and dumb AI.



ethomaz said:

disolitude said:

I think its up to developers to implement this so it works best for multiplayer, single player and doesn't impact the experience too much.

Lets use Forza single player as an example.

Race starts and the normal car AI is present. After 1 lap of collecting your driving patters, this data is sent to the cloud where microsoft calculates new AI enhancements that are applied to the existing AI and sends instructions back to your Xbox One. The game is running 1080p@60 on your console with no hiccups since these calculation isn't happening on your console. If internet isn't there, this doesn't happen and game still runs 1080p@60...

BTW...why is everyone so fascinated with this "internet goes down" idea? Like christ, my internet goes down once a month for a few minutes tops... Will my whole life be ruined if all of sudden internet isn't able to enhance the game experience for a minute or two?

Forza is a great example because it already shifts the graphics when you are runnin with 1 car at screen and 16 cars at screens... so I will try to show what will happen.

You are running Forza 5 with AI into the Cloud... the game uses a LOD model for car with high quality... then your internet get slow or down for few seconds (it is fast... that happened everyday... you have instabilities in internet connections and you are disconnected from the Live for few seconds... I play a lot MP and sometimes you are disconected and needs to start again... happened all the time)... so the games stop the Cloud AI and start the local one but before you are using all the resources for graphics (that a example) and now you need to use 5% of them to backup the Cloud stuffs in local... so the game shift the LOD model of the car for another with low quality to the game sustaind the 60fps.

That shift will give you a weird experience when happened but it's fime if this auto shift didn't show any slowdown or lag.

But the AI isn't "running" in the cloud. AI enhancements are being calculated in the cloud with instructions sent to your Xbox One. Everything is still running locally...

MP disconnects due to internet outage and cloud computing aren't the same thing and shouldn't be seen as same.

The way this HAS to run in single player is -  anything cloud based "enhances" the game. Game has to be fully functional in single player without the cloud and enhancements happen when your internet is up and running.

Like Dead Rising 3 may have 5000 zombies on screen at one time. Without cloud computing, there may be 500 different AI patterns that zombies share, however with cloud each zombie can get its own AI pattern and behaviour. 



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endimion said:
I was sure the AI was loaded at the beginning of the race for forza.... basically instead of using the one on the disc it is loading drivatars of other players through the cloud.... that's how I got it.... so if you don't have a connection you get the basic AI if you do have a connection it loads AI from other players drivatars for a more human like experience....

@stefl1504about people with bad connection or not willing to pay for a good one, how is it supposed to make MS choose to not implement and push new techs????

with that reasoning smartphone companies shouldn't push 4g devices because some people don't have access to the 4g network ????

you'll be able to play the game offline just the same but much like they advertise some games being better with Kinect... they will probably do the same with cloud... "better with a cloud connection"
so everybody will have access to the core experience and the one than can will have the extra goodies available....

and cloud computing is not gimmick it's been here for years and expending every day and it is here to stay... that statement is plain stupid.... and yes it will become relevant in games sooner than later.... I'm sure I will die in a cloud dominated world I have no doubt about that....

I have nothing against pushing new technologies, in fact I think it is a good thing, I just wonder how much I personally would profit from it if I decide to use it. If you want to talk about 4g, I can tell you the situation in my country is a mess, because all standardised g4 frequencies are occupied by other shit than phone service providers, so we will not be able to get any decent 4g until 2015, when the frequencies will be redistributed (resold). 4g doesn't matter anything with the cloud computing.

And please, I never stated it to be a gimmick~. In fact, I am hosting my own little private cloud-storage service for myself (mainly for text-files and pictures). I just think that currently the available technological level of the average person is just too low to profit from cloud computing. If you don't have money to toss at companies, you won't get more than I have. In fact, you can toss more money at them, and get less. The company I work for pays tripple the money and has slower internet than I have at home (I try to convince my boss that "up to" in a contract means "up to" and not "always equals" so he gets a cheaper tarif).

Also, you seem grumpy...



haha sorry I was responding to someone on the second page saying it's a gimmick not you.... and I wasn't saying cloud and 4g are related.... I was saying XB1 pushing cloud tech is like smartphones pushing 4g.... whether it is available for everyone or not....



disolitude said:

But the AI isn't "running" in the cloud. AI enhancements are being calculated in the cloud with instructions sent to your Xbox One. Everything is still running locally...

MP disconnects due to internet outage and cloud computing aren't the same thing and shouldn't be seen as same.

The way this HAS to run in single player is -  anything cloud based "enhances" the game. Game has to be fully functional in single player without the cloud and enhancements happen when your internet is up and running.

Like Dead Rising 3 may have 5000 zombies on screen at one time. Without cloud computing, there may be 500 different AI patterns that zombies share, however with cloud each zombie can get its own AI pattern and behaviour.

So no gameplay or graphcis change after all... so what the "advantage" of Cloud??? And the dev already said the game gets boring with suck number of zombies on the screen... they downgraded to way less.



endimion said:
haha sorry I was responding to someone on the second page saying it's a gimmick not you.... and I wasn't saying cloud and 4g are related.... I was saying XB1 pushing cloud tech is like smartphones pushing 4g.... whether it is available for everyone or not....

Ah, okay, sorry, misunderstood that then~~~

(I want 4g)

Also, I am mostly expressing my personal worries about benefits I might not have but others may have (and yes, like most other humans, I am egoistic). Also, I am curious as to what to expect from it, as I see it to be one of the few potential positive points of the XBOne.



ethomaz said:

disolitude said:

But the AI isn't "running" in the cloud. AI enhancements are being calculated in the cloud with instructions sent to your Xbox One. Everything is still running locally...

MP disconnects due to internet outage and cloud computing aren't the same thing and shouldn't be seen as same.

The way this HAS to run in single player is -  anything cloud based "enhances" the game. Game has to be fully functional in single player without the cloud and enhancements happen when your internet is up and running.

Like Dead Rising 3 may have 5000 zombies on screen at one time. Without cloud computing, there may be 500 different AI patterns that zombies share, however with cloud each zombie can get its own AI pattern and behaviour.

So no gameplay or graphcis change after all... so what the "advantage" of Cloud??? And the dev already said the game gets boring with suck number of zombies on the screen... they downgraded to way less.


Advantage of the cloud is that the PS4 version will run the sucky zombie AI while the Xbox One version will have "enahnced" AI if you're connected to the internet.

Someone above said that "Better with Kinect sensor" sticker will be replaced with "Better with Internet connection" on the Xbox One games.

Another advantage is that devs don't have to worry about the cost of server hosting and can incorporate this in to Xbox One games. Multiplat matchmaking on Xbox One games will be faster with less downtime. What do you think is better 50 EA servers that Fifa 2014 will use for PS4 or 100,000 Microsoft ones? The irony is that the 50 EA servers will most likely run on Microsofts cloud too except EA will have to pay for it.

Finally there may be graphical advantages too and shorter/less loading times as well. But these need to be shown by MS to be considered as credible advantages...