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Forums - Microsoft - Microsofts biggest problem isn't too many restrictions, its too many options.

wilco on 17 June 2013
oniyide said:


When you say cut the cord? Do you mean have NO retail games at all, like no hard copies? Cause that would be terrible, no other entertainment media does that. Hell I can tell go to the store and buy a damn newspaper. 


Yup, I mean cut it completely. No xb1 retail games. But that doesn't mean gaming will suddenly become the only medium with no hard copies. The PS4, Wii U and other platforms will still have the option. It just means one platform holder is out. A lot of magazines have gone online only, that doesn't mean magazines are dead, it just means a couple chose to leave retail stands.

Consumers will always have options, I just don't see why people want xb1 and ps4 to be identical. I actually hate the fact that ps3 and 360 were so similar. Consoles need to differentiate themselves more.



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oniyide on 17 June 2013
wilco said:
oniyide said:
 


When you say cut the cord? Do you mean have NO retail games at all, like no hard copies? Cause that would be terrible, no other entertainment media does that. Hell I can tell go to the store and buy a damn newspaper. 


Yup, I mean cut it completely. No xb1 retail games. But that doesn't mean gaming will suddenly become the only medium with no hard copies. The PS4, Wii U and other platforms will still have the option. It just means one platform holder is out. A lot of magazines have gone online only, that doesn't mean magazines are dead, it just means a couple chose to leave retail stands.

Consumers will always have options, I just don't see why people want xb1 and ps4 to be identical. I actually hate the fact that ps3 and 360 were so similar. Consoles need to differentiate themselves more.

...I actually like the way you think. however the fact is that most consoles throughout gens have been very similar. Genesis was not that different from SNES, PS1 was not that different from Saturn. Personally i dont mind consoles being similar, because i save money by not missing anything and not having to buy all three. Except for maybe exclusives. Which i could live without.



SvennoJ on 17 June 2013
wilco said:
Heavenly_King said:

By how their restrictions are, they should just not include a BR drive considering how your retail disk is pretty much worthless. BUT considering they are aiming to be your media center they need a BR; and If it was all digital (which it practically is) Gamestop would not sell the console. For me the vision of the console is disjointed in term of gaming aspects, media aspects, and how the market works. Those aspects seem to have been envisioned separately; and then in order to make both functions compatible the console ended costing more; without offering the advantage of the hardware it has; and with lots of restrictions gaming-wise; and quite a convoluted mess in the other aspects..


No they don't need a BR drive. You can get movies through the internet just like you get games, and assuming they are downloaded the quality will be equal to Blu Ray. For all we know BR could be irrelevant in 5 years but digital downloads are guaranteed to still be viable 10 years from now.

And as far as gamestop is concerned, I seriously doubt they would stop stocking it, but even if they did, that is where IPTV providers come in. If microsoft could get into business with a company like verizon they wouldn't even need gamestop anymore and seing as how gamestop even sells tablets now, I doubt they would stop stocking xbox anyways.

Downloaded movies are no where near in quality to blu-ray, and lack all the extra features. Downloading 40gb movies is not feasible yet for most of the population. With my bandwidth cap it would take me 8 months to download the LotR extended edition. (6 dual layer discs)

They could have gone with 2 sku's, one digital only, and promote Ultraviolet copies of blu-rays to stay an all (most) in one system. It would probably not get more then $50 of the retail price though, better to release a version without Kinect.
At least having a disc less SKU would also help the message: End of disc ownership.



wilco on 17 June 2013
SvennoJ said:
wilco said:
Heavenly_King said:

By how their restrictions are, they should just not include a BR drive considering how your retail disk is pretty much worthless. BUT considering they are aiming to be your media center they need a BR; and If it was all digital (which it practically is) Gamestop would not sell the console. For me the vision of the console is disjointed in term of gaming aspects, media aspects, and how the market works. Those aspects seem to have been envisioned separately; and then in order to make both functions compatible the console ended costing more; without offering the advantage of the hardware it has; and with lots of restrictions gaming-wise; and quite a convoluted mess in the other aspects..


No they don't need a BR drive. You can get movies through the internet just like you get games, and assuming they are downloaded the quality will be equal to Blu Ray. For all we know BR could be irrelevant in 5 years but digital downloads are guaranteed to still be viable 10 years from now.

And as far as gamestop is concerned, I seriously doubt they would stop stocking it, but even if they did, that is where IPTV providers come in. If microsoft could get into business with a company like verizon they wouldn't even need gamestop anymore and seing as how gamestop even sells tablets now, I doubt they would stop stocking xbox anyways.

Downloaded movies are no where near in quality to blu-ray, and lack all the extra features. Downloading 40gb movies is not feasible yet for most of the population. With my bandwidth cap it would take me 8 months to download the LotR extended edition. (6 dual layer discs)

They could have gone with 2 sku's, one digital only, and promote Ultraviolet copies of blu-rays to stay an all (most) in one system. It would probably not get more then $50 of the retail price though, better to release a version without Kinect.
At least having a disc less SKU would also help the message: End of disc ownership.


You're only thinking about the present. All these things could change. 10 years ago people were still using dial up, if you told someone back then that streaming HD content would soon be possible they wouldn't have believed you. Technology moves forward and if microsoft is serious about making a future proof console they need to anticipate that. If the console makers allow current limitations to hold them back they will have an outdated console in a few short years. You have to bet on the future, its possible to bet wrong but thats the reality of the tech industry.



SvennoJ on 17 June 2013
wilco said:
SvennoJ said:
wilco said:
 


No they don't need a BR drive. You can get movies through the internet just like you get games, and assuming they are downloaded the quality will be equal to Blu Ray. For all we know BR could be irrelevant in 5 years but digital downloads are guaranteed to still be viable 10 years from now.

And as far as gamestop is concerned, I seriously doubt they would stop stocking it, but even if they did, that is where IPTV providers come in. If microsoft could get into business with a company like verizon they wouldn't even need gamestop anymore and seing as how gamestop even sells tablets now, I doubt they would stop stocking xbox anyways.

Downloaded movies are no where near in quality to blu-ray, and lack all the extra features. Downloading 40gb movies is not feasible yet for most of the population. With my bandwidth cap it would take me 8 months to download the LotR extended edition. (6 dual layer discs)

They could have gone with 2 sku's, one digital only, and promote Ultraviolet copies of blu-rays to stay an all (most) in one system. It would probably not get more then $50 of the retail price though, better to release a version without Kinect.
At least having a disc less SKU would also help the message: End of disc ownership.


You're only thinking about the present. All these things could change. 10 years ago people were still using dial up, if you told someone back then that streaming HD content would soon be possible they wouldn't have believed you. Technology moves forward and if microsoft is serious about making a future proof console they need to anticipate that. If the console makers allow current limitations to hold them back they will have an outdated console in a few short years. You have to bet on the future, its possible to bet wrong but thats the reality of the tech industry.

Well in the past 10 years I went from upto 10mbps uncapped internet to 20 to 40 mbps capped internet.
It will be far more then 10 years before fibre comes along here. Not much is going to change in a few short years.

What we will have in a few short years, or rather next year, is HDMI 2.0, so Xbox One is already outdated anyway next year. Future proving hardly ever really works, new tech will come along. New wireless to keep up with 1gbps internet, wireless N is not good enough for that. Plus after 10 years the hardware will be completely outdated.

Anyway future proofing is about anticipating and allowing more things, no restricting what people are used to. It's like selling tv's with only HDMI inputs in 2002. The restrictions are the problem.



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Lyrikalstylez on 17 June 2013

Nah it's the restrictions



oniyide on 17 June 2013
SvennoJ said:
wilco said:
SvennoJ said:
wilco said:
 


No they don't need a BR drive. You can get movies through the internet just like you get games, and assuming they are downloaded the quality will be equal to Blu Ray. For all we know BR could be irrelevant in 5 years but digital downloads are guaranteed to still be viable 10 years from now.

And as far as gamestop is concerned, I seriously doubt they would stop stocking it, but even if they did, that is where IPTV providers come in. If microsoft could get into business with a company like verizon they wouldn't even need gamestop anymore and seing as how gamestop even sells tablets now, I doubt they would stop stocking xbox anyways.

Downloaded movies are no where near in quality to blu-ray, and lack all the extra features. Downloading 40gb movies is not feasible yet for most of the population. With my bandwidth cap it would take me 8 months to download the LotR extended edition. (6 dual layer discs)

They could have gone with 2 sku's, one digital only, and promote Ultraviolet copies of blu-rays to stay an all (most) in one system. It would probably not get more then $50 of the retail price though, better to release a version without Kinect.
At least having a disc less SKU would also help the message: End of disc ownership.


You're only thinking about the present. All these things could change. 10 years ago people were still using dial up, if you told someone back then that streaming HD content would soon be possible they wouldn't have believed you. Technology moves forward and if microsoft is serious about making a future proof console they need to anticipate that. If the console makers allow current limitations to hold them back they will have an outdated console in a few short years. You have to bet on the future, its possible to bet wrong but thats the reality of the tech industry.

Well in the past 10 years I went from upto 10mbps uncapped internet to 20 to 40 mbps capped internet.
It will be far more then 10 years before fibre comes along here. Not much is going to change in a few short years.

What we will have in a few short years, or rather next year, is HDMI 2.0, so Xbox One is already outdated anyway next year. Future proving hardly ever really works, new tech will come along. New wireless to keep up with 1gbps internet, wireless N is not good enough for that. Plus after 10 years the hardware will be completely outdated.

Anyway future proofing is about anticipating and allowing more things, no restricting what people are used to. It's like selling tv's with only HDMI inputs in 2002. The restrictions are the problem.


Pretty much this, what you say about movies is spot on, and thats just movies, what about your typical game? Much bigger file, hell what about next gen games? even bigger. Most of the world even most gamers arent ready for all digital to DL those kinds of files, youll be DLing more than playing. A part of me kinds of wish MS went all digital and fail. Not cause i hate MS, but just to put this whole digital is the future crap to rest. There is a reason why no media has gone completly digital, dont know why people think video games are special.



snakehead43 on 17 June 2013

i dislike the mandatory Kinect. I have never been a fan of the Kinect



CDiablo on 18 June 2013
wilco said:

The type of consumer that would actually go out and buy a steam game at retail is not what I would call a "general" consumer.

I hate to agree with cliffy b on this but I think the retail model is broken. But you don't fix it with bandages, you abandon it all together. That may sound like suicide but is it really? Itunes proved that most people aren't slaves to the retail model. Look at netflix, hulu, amazon vs blockbuster. Why are people so afraid of retail? Their power is more perceived than real. One console maker with the balls to cut the cord is all it would take to ignite the digital gaming revolution. Microsoft is really the only one in the position to do something like this. Yeah its risky but it would either be a failure or a HUGE success. Unlike sony, microsoft can actually afford to fail, so why not go all out and take some risks?

Someone who just got a new laptop goes into a store and sees this new fangled Bioshock, Battlefield(I know origin), Skyrim.....ect game everyone is talking about and decides to give it a shot. I think that is a general customer.

Itunes can succede because people will continue to buy tablets, pcs, laptops and ect through retail/online channels and they have good profit margins. Game consoles have low profit margins to the point that no one would sell them or the consoles would have to take a $20-50 hike(in order to give to the retailer). So in the end the only place you could probably buy an all digital XBone would be from MS themselves without raising its current price that would flop harder than any idea.



Getting an XBOX One for me is like being in a bad relationship but staying together because we have kids. XBone we have 20000+ achievement points, 2+ years of XBL Gold and 20000+ MS points. I think its best we stay together if only for the MS points.

Nintendo Treehouse is what happens when a publisher is confident and proud of its games and doesn't need to show CGI lies for five minutes.

-Jim Sterling

richardhutnik on 18 June 2013
BinaryDelt said:
wilco said:

1. CREATE A CONSOLE WITHOUT AN OPTICAL DRIVE! One obvious advantage is that they would save money and could reduce the price of the console, but more importantly there would be no confusion about used games or internet requirements. It would be built in. No confusing, 10 person, 1 gifting, 30 days on friends list bull crap.... NO USED GAMES PERIOD. I personally would have much more respect for microsoft if they took a hardline stance rather than trying to throw petty crumbs at gamers. There would also be no question as to whether you need an internet connection... Yes you do, end of discussion. Obviously this would be problematic for a lot of gamers but many PC gamers are already used to this set up. They wouldn't have a problem with it as long as the messaging was clear and simple like it is on steam.

Had microsoft revealed xbox one without an optical drive gamers would've gotten the message. They would know that they were being dragged into the future and they would at the very least understand their choice. As it stands now, most gamers are just confused, nothing is being properly communicated. The reason sony's "were not changing anything" policy works, isn't just because its "not evil", its because its crazy simple. It doesn't require a 10 page rule book and people like that.

The PSP Go disagrees with your digital-only philosophy.

HOWEVER, the PC market as it is today, does support this philosophy.  One concern about digital-only is that retailers are less than enthused about carrying hardware unless they can find other ways to also make money on carrying it.